7 years ago
Maine, USA

What would 100% be considered in this? All optional fights, discoveries, moon fish, crew members?

New York, USA

It's not as if it hasn't been thought about but yeah. It's kind of crazy. It could be done just expect a long run. I think everyone is focused on getting Any% to a good point right now.

Washington, USA

I've actually been working on this off and on. My rough notes go up to a little after you get the Delphinus, but most of it is theoretical, as I don't have a lot of free time on my hands at the moment to actually sit down and play the game to test things.

Honestly, I think the biggest obstacle (other than stamina for finishing) is going to be figuring out how many battles you can feasibly run away from. Ideally you're going to want to be able to recruit Ryu-kan as soon as possible, but the current Any% route has a LOT of running away, which positively kills your Swashbuckler rating. In a 100% run you're going to want to be fighting a lot more battles anyway (to hit that 2500 enemies mark), but there are still plenty of fights you're just not going to want to do (for time or resource reasons). Fights with Grouders on Shrine Island or the soldiers on top of the train in the early game come readily to mind, but I'm sure there's quite a few others.

New York, USA

The 2500 kills is entirely the problem with 100%. Trying to keep your swashbuckler rating high enough and not running away too much are big things that would have to be figured out for that run. On average in a normal Any% run you kill over 200 enemies but under 300. You can check this at Hamachou Island. That's just to give you an idea of things. That's of course with running away from most fights. Either way you can see what I mean. No question, you would have to grind at some point in the run to get the 2500 kills. This would make you OP as heck though.

Most of the other requirements are not too bad as far as routing them out. Some discoveries may be annoying but overall not too bad. Ryu-kan is the main worry with the crew members. Optimizing the optional boss fights you would have to fight would be a thing of course. But yes, you would pretty much need the strength of the moons to get through a 100% run of this game. I'm not too focused on 100% until I get a time I want in Any%. I'll look more into it after that. Plus my time is kind of limited too right now.

7thArmstrong and Pandora like this
Washington, USA

I actually "finished" my theoretical notes the other day. Seeing as there isn't really a way to play the game on a handheld device, my only option during down time at work is to read FAQs, watch the Any% run, and watch YouTube videos for reference (mostly yours, actually). Granted, I feel like I got a lot done that way, but most of said notes need to be refined through actual gameplay, as evidenced by some of my recent blundering attempts on stream to get around to things.

But yeah, I noticed the issue with the 2500 kills. My initial thought was, "Well, okay, I guess you just can't run from anything until after you recruit Ryu-kan and defeat Vize the Legend." since those are the only two things reliant on Swashbuckler rating, but then I got to the old video where you went to Hamachou Island and it was something on the order of, "Ran 0 times, 1100-something enemies killed" and I was like, "Oh... oh ¤¤¤¤." I get the feeling that the White Map/Stealth Ring combo is just going to have very limited use in a 100% run.

But because you're more powerful at any given time in the 100% run, that also means we might need to re-evaluate where to use the Auras of Valor too. Outside of a godsend drop, you get three in a 100% run, vs. the Any%'s two, and I'm heavily contemplating using them in some of the bounty fights, especially the Ixa'ness Demons and Daikokuya.

Pandora likes this

Quick question:

For 100%, do you mean just get "Vyse the legend" title and then beating the game?

or: do you also include "getting" the "Three Legends"? (Sky Fang, Golden Hamachou, beating Sky pirate Vigoro)

also: what about Elcian?

Washington, USA

From my notes:

What do I constitute as 100%?

-Vyse the Legend Rank --100% Discoveries Reported --100% Treasure Chests Opened --All Bounties Reported --Complete Doc/Maria/Piastol Side Quest

-The Three Secrets --All of the above, plus: --12 Non-Story Ship Battles --Kill All 4 Giant Monsters --Recruit All Crew Members --Kill 2500+ Enemies

-All Chams (Final Cupil)

Considering I'm the only one seriously routing 100% right now (that I'm aware of). This is the current working definition of the category. While I considered including Elcian, because the game does not treat it as a boss fight (normal fight music), it has no story segments, it doesn't count towards any of the achievements normally associated with 100%, it has no unique drops, and is a repeatable, untracked fight, I don't consider it necessary to do, similar to fully upgrading Crescent Isle.

I'm not above adding it in if it's something that people would consider necessary for the category, however.

Pandora and 7thArmstrong like this
New York, USA

I would agree that Elcian should not be required for a 100% run. It has no bearing on anything really as far as achieving "100%". It's just an arbitrary thing. And for all the reasons that Kinsei mentioned it just seems not worth including. He's more like a super boss that you can bash your face against honestly lol

Like requiring that to me is like saying you have to fight one of every enemy in the game or something. The game doesn't have an item or monster compendium though. You could get way down in the weeds when defining 100% but for this game I think what Kinsei has defined works well enough. The game itself doesn't have an official percentage tracker. But I think getting Vyse the Legend plus all three secrets is basically 100% Just my two cents though.

7thArmstrong likes this

I totally agree about Elcian and the upgrades of crescent island.

And about the Three Secrets: Do you consider just "unlocking" them (fulfil the requirements), or also "getting" them (buy the Sky Fang, "discover" the Golden Hamachou, and beat Vigoro) ?

Washington, USA

I consider it getting them; partially because it "proves" that you met the requirements (several of my test runs I've THOUGHT I'd met the requirements, but had miscounted on enemies or ship battles at some point and had to go back and fix it) but also partially because otherwise you wouldn't really feel any... pay off, I guess, to the ~3-4 hours of grinding you have to do at the end of the game to reach 2500 enemies. Plus Air Pirate Vigoro meets all the requirements for an "actual boss fight" that I listed that Elcian doesn't qualify for.

...Also, I find it rather vindicating to show how easy said boss fight can be with the proper set-up. Resist gear in this game is SO broken.

7thArmstrong likes this

That's a good point. And yeah, late game it's pretty broken in general xD

In regards to the 2.500 battles (I guess that's what takes the most time), you think it's just better to wait for the end of the game to grind? I guess on a high rate place with a black map (soltis?).

I was thinking how optimal would be grinding at a fixed encounters place, like the flashlights zone in the grand fortress before the delphinus, one can just sit at the spawning point of the light and get encounters pretty fast. The downside is that we'll be less OP at the end but maybe it's still worth.

Washington, USA

At the moment, what I'm doing for encounters is fighting anything I run into through the course of the game (which helps for both enemy count and reaching the three Swashbuckler Rating "checkpoints" in the game) and then grinding in South Ocean at the end of the run.

South Ocean has the second highest enemy to encounter ratio in the game (just barely losing out to Looper Land); said encounters can be easily cleared in one turn with Aika's Omega Psyclone (unlike Looper Land) and have a chance to drop a Black Map if you don't have one already.

Unfortunately, enemy to encounter ratio is the only thing I can use to measure encounter efficiency at the moment. It's quite possible that some areas in the game have higher encounter rates than others, which would affect grinding efficiency, but that sort of data hasn't been mined from the game that I can find and my attempts to contact the people that have successfully data mined the game in the past have met with no meaningful results.

I will be looking into your idea for the searchlights in the Grand Fortress, though, as I hadn't considered that. If the down time between encounters is quick, there's a decent number of enemies, and there's a good way at that point in the game to clear the battles quickly, that might be a worthwhile alternative. Might make the bounty fight right after that point a little less painful too.

Pandora likes this

wow, I'm glad Looper Land has the highest encounter rate. Also Aika can kill most loopers with Psyclone having high magic, but I don't know if in 100% speedrun she'll have that much at that point (Focus Robe helps a lot). And with all that leveling up soon or later Rain of Swords on first turn will be a thing.

On the other hand, I think I can do some time test on grand fortress. I think the big question will be what saves more time, faster 2500 battles or having more level in late game so the bosses are even faster (also a LOT of money, meaning more paranta seeds for vyse)

Edited by the author 6 years ago
Washington, USA

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. Due to their high Magic Defense, it would require you to pump up Aika's Will with Icyl Seeds to reach a level where you could reliably one-shot the higher tier Loopers with Omega Psyclone (even with Will-increasing equipment taken into account, like the Focus Robe). Similarly, at least using South Ocean as the grinding spot, even after the hours required to reach 2500 enemies, you still don't get anywhere close to the over all level you would need to be getting 14 SP at the beginning of a battle to swap out for Rain of Swords.

Bosses in the latter half of the game don't take as many turns as you'd think outside of the bounty fights, but because those level with you, your relative strength is rather irrelevant for those. I can't say for sure since I haven't tested it, but I doubt moving the grinding spot to that location would result in any sizable difference in the battles after that point, even taking into account a larger than average amount of money for Paranta Seeds.

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