I am removing my runs from this website,I no longer want to be a part of this circle. They will still be on my channel and for anyone who wants to see of course.

I will try to be nice.

1/Main reason is the people behind getting the runs on these leaderboards are too ignorant to actually keep them right (e.g. ignoring the fact Anti was cheating in SA, not taking the runs down for months and not checking his VC/3 stuff for a WHOLE fucking year, not asking FLYING to provide add info before verifying his runs, constantly mis-timing runs and still having the stupid timing rule) there is more smaller things like this, I will not bother going into more detail.
I am not even gonna go into the stupidity of VC/3 runners, i'll leave that.

Question for the mods, how do you know when the timing starts if CJ can gain control on a black screen?

And now the same people are still big stars the next day, which leads me to my next point

2/People who do constantly do stupid shit are still big stars the next day.
MH removing IL leaderboards, still verifier, still probably had a say whether Anti should be permanently banned from the LBs in the little "group of friends" circle.

Joshimuz modding MH and defending him to death when he was doing stupid shit in the past, now he runs away from responsibility when it was his fault the ILs were removed, the next day Joshimuz is still making big decisions such as banning Anti from the leaderboards.

I could give more examples but these people don't really deserve attention.

"Group of friends" once again deciding what happens with a big part of the leaderboards (brings me to point 3)

It's actually funny how people see this website as a reliable one, they really need to see the behind-the-scenes bullshit that happens.

Future prediction, Joshimuz will be back here as Mod as if nothing happened in a few years.

People getting different treatment also because of ESA and other PR bullshit.

3/Categories only that the mods specifically want get added on the leaderboards, there's nothing more to say about this and it's quite obvious this is true, just read past locked threads if you have time.

It was the same idiots in 2013, same in 2018 and probably will still be the same 2023, reminder there is a difference between making mistakes and being VERY ignorant.

I'm basically sick of the never ending cycle of stupidity on these leaderboards so I do not want to be a part of it anymore. Same people with their same bullshit, same everything, different year.

Knowing all this, I do not see any point to be a part of this website.

I DO NOT want my runs re-submitted. Ever.

There is some red pills in here and maybe some things that are ahead of their time, so don't be too quick to talk. But then again nothing ever changes so it probably doesn't even matter because it'll be overlooked. Be sure to overlook this too because of my age or because I said X in the past so this means this thread is X.

I have a lot more to say, but i'd really rather not.

Rant over.


ThunderThunder, WizzWizz and 16 others like this. 

I kept myself as a verifier cause people clearly weren't happy about the whole IL thing, and nobody seemed to have an issue with me trying to support the recovery by verification. Also, only categories the mods want: like what? I didn't want NMG to exist but most of the runners did, so I added it anyway. Things like LS% obviously won't be made a main category.

Anyway, I guess that's one less problematic person in the community.

TopalMuharremTopalMuharrem, ZachoholicZachoholic and 3 others like this. 

I am not aware of stupid things Mh did before deleting the LB or Joshimuz defending him. Examples?


Not sure why people who actively hate on the community are still here, just do what reset did and move on if you dislike some (or most) people that much, and if the amount of people you like or are friends with is enough to keep you here then stop bitching.

storm849storm849 likes this. 

LS%: This is a practice category, and even then, it doesn't have much merit as a practice category because it's literally the first part of the run. Every full game run involves completing LS, thus making it redundant. None of the main categories have partial completion of the game, and even the misc categories have an objective that is unique to that category only (All Tags/Oysters/Collectibles/etc have unique routes). There are no LS% strats, except not storing a cop bike, I guess. Given all of the above, I see no reason to move it to these boards.

Anti: You are right, we should have been more suspect. The good news is, there were skeptical minds (such as yourself, as well as Powdinet) that unraveled the whole mystery. It only took so long because Anti contributed much to this scene; with new strats and testing and timing stuff. Obviously, he cheated, and he is now permabanned from the boards. What more do you want?

MHMD_FVC: Obviously, I'm not happy with his removal of the ILs. After he did this, he immediately demoted himself and made both Anti_ and I supermod. In the wake of this, he has probably done more legwork to restore the ILs than I have (I think hoxi has both of us beat, though). As a verifier, he can't do anything pertaining to the boards, or even the runs themselves. He can only approve or reject runs, which is something he has done plenty of -- so credit where it's due. I was sorely disappointed with him removing the ILs, and I still am, but I value his efforts to make it right. Call it a redemption arc.

- - -

You haven't even been active here in quite some time but you make this big comeback just to fire off this loud cannon of a post and storm out. Aren't you doing exactly what you roast us for: not having an honest discussion about it? How do you expect us, or anything really, to change, if you don't have a talk about it? Deleting your runs and posting a rant is not a discussion. The immaturity of this is pretty self-evident, and no, it's not because of your age or because you contradict yourself (obviously, you do, but that's not my point) -- it's because you think this is a reasonable approach to some pretty small problems. Blowing it completely out of proportion and making it about yourself, more than anything else.

Baseless claims are also not arguments. Saying that "Joshimuz will come back like nothing happened" is aimless hate, something you show a lot of, especially since I've spoken with Josh and he told me he wants absolutely nothing to do with moderating anymore.

- - -

@MToms127 -- "preach brother" doesn't really give me anything. What exactly is the problem with how this ship is being run?

Michael_WilsonMichael_Wilson, fl1ppyXDfl1ppyXD and 6 others like this. 

We should hold monthly elections for who gets mod and who doesn't


You are asking for a monthly popularity contest.

TheodorosTheodoros, glxy10glxy10 and AlcoweAlcowe like this. 

For the record I left because:
1. I wanted to for a long time because it was too much work for too much hate, and others were encouraging me to
2. I didn't want to deal with the massive fallout from something I had no input on (I also was not at home, I was in the middle of a hosting shift when I was told)
3. I was completely undermined when ILs were deleted and the action is completely indefensible
4. I wasn't the best mod in the first place since I never followed through with long-term stuff or talked much with others (e.g. forum rules)
5. I probably verified what felt like 80% of all ILs and was pretty pissed MH was annoyed by them (I wasn't verifying at ESA, hindsight this was a mistake and I could be wrong about numbers)

I also didn't "make the decision to ban Anti" I just wrote the forum post lol

Anyway sorry to fan the flames I just thought I should put this here since I'm not sure I actually said why I left anywhere

TheodorosTheodoros, Patrick_Patrick_ and 4 others like this. 

The fact that Mh stayed as verifier made the IL restoration process a lot quicker, just saying.

Patrick_Patrick_ likes this. 

The post has some good sentiments and I feel it was written in good faith, honestly I've been always pretty annoyed at the fact that "people in power" (I dislike using this phrase but here it's technically correct) have been mostly the same people over the years and mostly from the same circle. I think this creates unnecessary tension, probably discourages new people to join and also fosters a kind of atmosphere where people feel comfortable looking down on new (or out-of-circle) people's opinions. Also the fact that there have been massive mistakes pretty much every year from pretty much all sides of the leaderboard mods (and other "important people") probably stems from these people getting burned out and becoming annoyed. In a community that made sense, these people would just say goodbye and leave (or take a break) instead of fucking up other people's work.



"people in power" (I dislike using this phrase but here it's technically correct) have been mostly the same people over the years and mostly from the same circle.

Everyone modding Vice City is relatively new to the scene. Hoxi is also a mod here, and he's "newish" -- it is no surprise that the core community has remained the same over the years, but we're obviously not afraid to take on new faces for positions of power.


You personally see no reason, so just ignore the clear demand for it? Don't even bother taking it to a vote?

The discussion has always been "add LS%", but no one really speaks on why it needs to be moved from Category Extensions into the main boards. You bring up T%, and that's a fair point, but then you just attack my motives and insinuate I'm not open for discussion? I don't get it.


It's clear that the real reason is "More runs to verify? No thanks, just keep the dead categories on there."

Between myself, hoxi and mhmd, we have verified 436 IL runs over the last week. Volume of runs is clearly not a problem.

More to LS% -- you bring up that it has a lot of runs on GTACE. Clearly, its growth is not stagnated by it existing over there. I'm willing to be wrong on this, but I doubt there is an audience out there that thinks "Man, I'd love to run San Andreas, but LS% isn't on the main boards, so I don't want to bother" -- its existence on one page or another doesn't really have a bearing on the people that run it. Plus, if it's on the main boards, it'll be tucked under Misc anyway, so the visibility of the category will be equally poor -- if not worse.


No thanks, just keep the dead categories on there.

A category's current activity should have no bearing on where it exists. All Missions, NMG and 100% all fit the criteria of the main boards, so they will stay.

TopalMuharremTopalMuharrem, storm849storm849 and 2 others like this. 

LS% being popular on the CE boards in no way proves that being on the CE boards is stagnating it’s growth. And that it’s visability would be worse if it were on this page under misc. is laughable. Any% dupeless has double the runs it had before being moved (and it would have a lot more if dupeless old runs from any% were moved over). I would bet money on LS% surpassing any% in number of runs if it were on this leaderboard.


Categories that only play 1/4 of the game shouldn’t be on the main leaderboard.

TopalMuharremTopalMuharrem, LeonLeon and 4 others like this. 
  [user deleted]

If LS is on the main leaderboard, why isn´t Bandlans, SF, LV, Desert and RTLS too? Having LS on the main leaderboards is dumb. We have had this conversation a lot of time before.

SpuG3SpuG3, TopalMuharremTopalMuharrem and 4 others like this. 

Welll there is a very big difference between those categories and LS and that is the fact that LS begins where every other category begins, at the start of the game. Those other categories are more like NG+, they require a save, which means they require a standardized save for competitions sake and SF, Desert, LV, and RTLS all lack either a clear starting point or ending point so that is a poor comparison. The only good comparison to it is Trevor% , maybe Romans sorrow, and maybe Portland if you really want to stretch it.


"I would bet money on LS% surpassing any% in number of runs if it were on this leaderboard."

One more reason not to add it to the main board

DerpethDerpeth and fredonizukafredonizuka like this. 

"Different timing" was discussed, spoiler: nothing happened. Club of buddies x1.

"Restarting the game every attempt" Subjective laws were put in place for WR attempts. Club of buddies x2.

From the thread - "Yeah, we talked about it for a bit"
Who is we? It is club of buddies, that's who.

"Ginput was banned because a random guy made a thread" - Good point, they will say "it gives advantage"

I could argue that other allowed mods do too, why don't you ban them? Club of buddies x3, subjective laws once again.

People say the vote was being brigaded by Hugo viewers who are so criticised, but nothing is said about people who run other GTA games and decide to have an opinion about SA related things when there's drama, or people who have done 2 attempts years ago. But suddenly their opinion matters because they are a part of IRC/Discord/GTAM, not SA speedrunning. Newsflash: no one gives a shit.

It is once again an example of randoms from like 2013 having importance over people who run these games right now.

"You haven't even been active here in quite some time but you make this big comeback just to fire off this loud cannon of a post and storm out"

I have been one of the most active people this year regarding talking about SA even when i'm not playing. Just because i'm not playing categories that are significant to you doesn't mean i'm not active. What significant thing have you done? I'll wait. I have nothing to prove with this game anymore, I am the best. I have been re-doing runs from new strats for years now. I can do more playing in a month than some people can do in years, new strats will probably not stop for a long time, so should I keep playing every month & every day so I could be labelled "active"? Straw grasping.

"Saying that "Joshimuz will come back like nothing happened" is aimless hate, something you know a lot of" - Look who's talking, you do this very often, just not here, but Twitch chats or Discord or youtube or whatever bullshit. When you try to act holier than thou, it only works on gullible people, this isn't twitch or youtube, it will not work here or atleast on me. The difference between me and you also is I don't call out people for being assholes unless they call me out, because I am one myself, so you shouldn't either.

A LOT of people here need to look in the mirror before talking, actually.

It took me a week to find out Anti was cheating in SA while it took you a year. I suggested for the runners of 3/VC to check his game speed. Nothing happened apart from the same idiots laughing. Now a year later this is somehow BIG NEWS.
When you let past cheaters roam the leaderboards, you should audit them or give no 2nd chances, or the leaderboards have a chance of losing a lot of value. AND they did. Does anyone even care about VC/3 now? I certainly don't. So give me a reason to speedrun when i'm potentially competing to someone who is cheating and nobody is doing anything about it, and it is too late now.

"A category's current activity should have no bearing on where it exists. All Missions, NMG and 100% all fit the criteria of the main boards, so they will stay."

A category's current activity should have no bearing on where it exists is your personal opinion and also the criteria is whatever KZ_FREW says, this is the criteria - do not push your personal opinions on other people.

For some reason you people weren't against Bosz, Domo, Anti, Derpeth voting against Los Santos in the most recent thread - who have no runs of SA on the leaderboards, we should come up for a name for them like you all did with Hugo viewers. "Discord idiots who think they're special" - that's a good name. It's fine to brigade votes as long as other GTA runners do it, apparently, fuck other people. Then the people who call these cucks out are assholes. Ironic.

Using words such as "objectively" "obviously" "criteria" does not save you from criticism, unfortunately. Good try though.

Los Santos doesn't have to be misc. You can create "Cities" beside Miscellaneous with a drop-down arrow with LS,BL,SF,LV,RTLS in there. How will this cloud the leaderboard, curious to hear an answer for people who say this.

By banning Anti you are already having inaccuracies on the leaderboard because the runs are not judged individually anymore, I do not see why people who voted for this are having a problem with me removing my own?

While you're at it, remove runs that have no videos on them, there are a lot.

MunatMunat, ReavzAUReavzAU and 2 others like this. 


And that it’s visability would be worse if it were on this page under misc. is laughable. Any% dupeless has double the runs it had before being moved (and it would have a lot more if dupeless old runs from any% were moved over). I would bet money on LS% surpassing any% in number of runs if it were on this leaderboard.

Under misc, you mean? Because it doesn't belong as a main category, and there has only been 1 run accepted to the misc leaderboard within the last few months.

The reason it doesn't belong as a main category is because every main category should involve, on some level, completion of the game. Misc categories are reserved for collectibles, and these misc categories exist on the "main boards" because they involve (a) non-arbitrary completion of an ingame objective (i.e. "collect all of X" as opposed to something like "shoot the moon 3 times"), and (b) have unique routes and rationale (i.e. how you reason within the game during the category).

Honestly, 69/70 USJs arguably belongs on CE, it only skirts by because you have to actually attempt the 70th USJ -- putting it in some sort of gray area.

Also, if LS actually had some unique routing or rationale to it within the category on its own, that would give it some legitimacy as a main or (more likely) misc category. But it doesn't. LS is contained within every main category.

Unique routing and rationale is also why NMG was moved to the main boards. It involves a completion of the game and has a unique route. This is also why things like "Cutscene%" or "100% NMG" is contained on CE. These categories are largely inconsequential in comparison to categories that are already on these boards. In lieu of this, All Missions has been called arbitrary but seems totally fair to me -- all missions with a global radar icon is pretty straightforward. The idea of an "All Assets" was once tossed around, but didn't really gain any traction so the idea was not further explored.

Leaving it on CE doesn't really grant it any injustice, either. If someone doesn't want to run a category because it's on CE and not the main boards is their own problem, I think. Practice categories and "fun" categories are very much a way of making speedrunning your own thing; it's different for everybody and we try to accommodate these unique approaches to speedrunning as best as we can (hence ILs which I don't particularly care for personally, as well as Category Extensions) so that people can fool around to their heart's content.

This is also why MDvMMw/CE has seen a lot of activity. It's not on the main boards, but that's not stopping anybody. People are running this category and having fun with it.

TopalMuharremTopalMuharrem, MakkebakkeMakkebakke and 2 others like this.