I am currently working on different runs for this game, and there is an item, the tasmanian sword, that allows skipping of 2 dungeons and bosses (it can be seen in the WR european version in the SDA website). There is also a glitch with swimming that skips parts of the games (can be seen in the TAS on the tasvideos website).
Considering this, i suggest the addition of these categories for this game: _All bosses (No tasmanian) _All bosses glitched (No tasmanian) _Any% glitched
I dont really consider suggesting more categories now, despite the fact that to allow the use of the tasmanian in all bosses could gain a little time, because it would merely make the Daimyo dungeon less interesting, and last dongeon too. Maybe i will consider more categories (like 100%) if more people run this game.
Never knew there was a swimming glitch, I'll have to check that out later. Anyway, here are the categories I'd been thinking about:
-Any%: What currently exists. No heart or item requirements, no glitch/trick limits and player can skip as many bosses as he wants. -Dragon% (All Bosses): Like Any%, except all dragons must be fought. The Tasmanian Sword is still allowed (it's quicker than using the transformation rooms). -100%: Fight all bosses and collect all hearts, weapons, armor and shields. -Human%: Use the WE5T 0NE password and take the door right to the Vampire Dragon. -Glitchless: Add to any other category, disallows use of the swim glitch. -Trickless: Add to any other category, disallows use of the Tasmanian Sword switch and the ability to create blocks anywhere with the Magical Sabre.
Tasmanian sword is kinda a grey area because some say it's a debug code. The speed runs I do is pretty much like the current TAS run: complete the game as fast as possible without 'debug/easter eggs' including Tasmanian sword transformation and creating blocks anywhere.
The SDA run is heavily outdated but back then the game wasn't fully researched when it comes to tricks.
The swimming glitch is doable on Wii VC due to how the 'emu' treats multiple inputs differently than: PS2's SEGA AGES 2500 series by only allowing the player to either set movement to D-pad, Left Stick or Right stick.
3DS VC which completely disables movement if the Game Gear port of WB III on 3DS VC becomes a reality.
Wii VC: When you hold LEFT on the left stick, you mash RIGHT on the D-pad, whenever the d-pad is pressed, the left stick is disabled which completely changes the execution to how the trick is perform completely.
I don't see how the Tasmanian Sword or the block creation are a grey area. Even if they weren't intended to be used by players, they're still tricks available within the game itself (as opposed to needing a Game Genie or something). Frankly, I don't see it as being any different as a person playing the original Zelda using the second controller to bring up the save screen so they can warp somewhere.
The difference between Zelda's 2nd controller feature to save your game and Tasmanian Sword 2nd controller feature to transform into different characters is that: Zelda's method was mentioned in the manual (which is also a key reason why TAS runs accepted this feature) Wonder Boy 3's manual did not mention about this at all.
Just getting into this myself and will likely submit a few runs hopefully sooner rather than later.
I approve Krendall's suggestions above, but question if we need that many categories for a game that not many are speedrunning.
Personally I'd like to see an Any% and a Dragon% No Tasmanian, with the latter being the category that I am running. I wouldn't have any problems going Dragon% and allowing Tasmanian though, it's not that huge of a time save.
I'm going to sound like a complete newbie now, so I apologize for that, but how would one go around requesting an addition of Dragon% to the categories?
I'm also running on an EU/PAL Master System, while the upload categories only allow for NTSC. Any way to add PAL systems there as well? ^^'
Thanks and sorry if my questions are silly.
Sorry i hadn't checked for a while, hadn't seen there were answers, i'll try to keep short but talk about everything:
first of all i agree with the fact that it's no use to create too many categories while no one runs them. this game appears to be quite rich in term of routing. To add a categorie, there should be a video of the routing, even if a training one, but it is better to debate of it here first i guess. Things have changed a little since i wrote the first message, partly because of the new TAS that you can see on the link below, with the brilliant idea that farming 99 charm stones to be able to use the hidden shortcut to last boss was the quickest way to beat the game (and it is): ()
_usually most runs take as a basic rule not to use passwords, but maybe a Human% would be cool to see once, but i'm not interested into doing it, but maybe if people want to do it?
_i didn't know that the swim glitch was possible on these consoles, but learnt recently that you can actually also do it on a regular Master System with a brazilian controller. So i guess this glitched category can be legit, but it can be debated, because it is still the only glitch that you cannot do with a basic controller on original game.
_PAL categories can be added of course if you run on the actual console. if you do emu i would prefer NTSC, because quicker, means PAL is a bit easier to play, and you are also the only one i met for the moment that does PAL.
_to allow tasmanian sword to all bosses is not that interesting for the moment, for it is the same route and just skips difficulty. probably better to identify All Bosses with the Block Creation route, so that it's less categories.
_the swim glitch still being debatable if we put it aside or not, currently i have a tendency to do so, i dont do it in my last any% PB, which is not glitchless because i do the newfound zips (see my last PB just after i get tasmanian)
_to create a glitchless category for any% is not really needed if we put swim apart, because for the moment it is just limited to 3 wall zips after the tasmanian, no need to create a new cat for that.
_basically for the moment to forbid tasmanian sword in a run makes it glitchless (if you put the swim glitch apart). I'm no fan to create a all bosses swim glitched, because the route would be basically the same as goldenblock, with just le lava part being easier because you fly over. Would be another category and money routing and all..
_my personal view, from being a runner of wonderboy 2 also, where hidden stuff and hidden doors were already crucial, is that some of these special features were probably left on purpose. But being the case or not, i don't see why these would be banned in any%, obviously it is a intended way to work for these items, not a random glitch. but of course they should be categories. I used to call them Special Features. We talked a bit with the TASer on the video and we came aprox. to this:
the ones i know that runs exists:
Swim%: everything allowed including specific setup glitches
Any%: everything is allowed except swim glitch - Tasmanian + Hadès being quickest route for the moment if you ecxept the TAS which does Charmstones
All Bosses (Goldenblock%): everything is allowed except Tasmanian and swim glitch - Actually skipping Tasmanian sword basically forces you to all bosses (and go glitchless if we put the swim is apart), so well if we want to limit the number of categories..
All Bosses No Feature: Special Features are forbidden (you actually can buy the items and use them, but cannot use the features). No transformation, wild Blocks, and for the Hades Armor i suggest to allow it, but only the way intended (one refill), so basically all you have to do is to wear the Hades, remove it and wear it again, because it removes the infinite bug. This is really hard, never managed to finish yet :p
other that i know no runs of them:
100%: all hearts and equipments (99 charmstomes would be folly, so no). Still debatable if a last key is needed, of if at least one magic attack is needed too.
Please tell me what do you think of it?
PS: PrincessAsu (or others) can you post here links of the runs you are doing, that i can see exactly the route?
this is a tough case, the game has different name and editor, but it looks and seems to work the same way. would be definetly better to put it here. Your run is good actually, and my respect for going without hades armor to last dungeon ;)
But from the best time i know for this route, it looks that the game is faster thant the master system, for you seem to have done a bit slower strats than synhael and you end with almost 2min less. I have to try first with tools if there are timing differences, but yeah too bad you didnt choose dragon's trap, because it was on emulator you had the choice, but the run is good enough to be in here in my opinion
OK i settled myself to create at least the most obvious categories that are currently ran, even if no answer yet. We can still debate on the rules that apply to them, and for the new ones. I create for the moment the categories where there is at least a run (and for the precise request concerning PAL too). If you have an actual run to submit, like a any% PAL, post in here.
categories created so far: Glitched%: any glitch or feature, including L+R glitch (rename Swim% ?) Any%: stays like it is currently, any glitch or feature but no L+R All Bosses: any feature except Tasmanian Sword (rename Goldenblock% ?)
should have a look as how to set up this, but PAL should be separate.
note: there is no TurboGrafix option to add, the console does not seem to exist here..
Can we add a WE5T 0NE % category? It's fun to put in that password then immediately go to the end of the game. It's doable in under a minute.
Sorry for late answer HamburglarX, been a lot busy lately.. Can you provide a link to a video with the route? We usually wait for actual runs to exist before opening a category..