Forums  /  Super Mario Bros.  /  GG to mods that verify
  Mars02Mars02

It's unfortunate how only 14% of the mods were able to verify runs. And I know they have other stuff to do in their lives so another thanks to the mods. 🙂

RyanGamesRyanGames, NovawolfNovawolf and 3 others like this. 
  Xein64Xein64

using the mods having a life is a bad excuse by now. obviously, they have lives, but if 3 out of 10+ mods are verifying runs, then they shouldn't be mods

zsjetu9zsjetu9, ViruseReturnsViruseReturns and 3 others like this. 
  Mars02Mars02

Xien I just didn't want to be mean to the mods. Plus, there's more to being a mod than just verifying runs.

 
  PicantePicante

I like the sentiment of thanking moderators for what they do, but I don't really like this approach.

The biggest thing of note is attaching value to a moderator based on the quantifiable amount of verified runs they have in the past X amount of days is a bit unhealthy and will inevitably lead to rushed verifications and added pressure on what at the end of the day is a volunteer position. This is how you get people burned out and have people talk about horror stories from being on the moderation team. Being a moderator generally just takes time for very little reward, and adding stress of monthly goals/quotas is not a good way to run a community.

The second thing I want to talk about is the fact that verification of runs, while one of the most important duties as a moderator, is not the only thing moderators do. Specifically for SMB1/2J, there is pretty significant discussion on a variety of topics pertinent to the community and the leaderboards in particular discussed between us, despite this information not being prominent to those on the outside. It really is a thankless job in this regard in that the mod team spends significant time debilitating issues due to their passion for the game without their efforts being noticed. I can tell you of participation between many of the people with low or zero verified runs on these charts, showing heavy involvement elsewhere. The implication of thanking moderators who specifically verify runs implies that other moderators are not deserving of thanks.

I also want to stress again that this is a volunteer position. People's involvement ebbs and flows, however that doesn't mean they are undeserving of a spot on the board. Sure, if you were to go back a full year and see zero verifications, than there may be some reevaluation of whether or not that person is truly interested in being a moderator, but overall the approach shouldn't be to attack those who aren't verifying but to look at the problem as a reason to add more moderators to the team. As far as I can tell, there are no disadvantages as to leaving people on who don't necessarily have time right now to verify runs, as those who aren't interested in moderating the community should be leaving by their own volition, as we've already seen with i_o_l. There's also the point that looking at the past 60 days invalidates what has been a significant amount of work in the recent past. I know Roopert has verified hundreds of runs, but these graphs make it seem like he is barely involved. There are also the Category Extensions boards that are verified by the same moderators, which may change how the graphs even look.

Really again, I just have an issue with the initial approach of this. I feel like it could have just been said that the wait time is getting larger and we need to add more moderators, but instead this comes off as a passive aggressive attack on the mod team besides to the few that have verified runs as of late. If I greatly misinterpreted the intention of this post, I apologize, just something irked me about it.

afnannen136afnannen136, SeydieSeydie and 17 others like this. 
  DarpeyDarpey

On mobile so hard to type... But I fully agree with @Picante on I think every one of his points. And I can't see what mods do behind the scenes. And I realize this post came off as passive aggressive and I'll get hate from mods (from seemingly hating on mods). Yes there are mods that do things behind the scenes. And ❤️ to them.

However having runs that take weeks to verify is inexcusable. There is literally no reason for a run to take over a week to verify (barring abnormalities in the run). If the queue is large - you add more mods

It's literally that easy. Add 2 more mods that are willing to verify runs and are willing to learn the process.... Then add another if the queue gets unmanageable... And another... Until the queue is manageable. I literally don't see the downside. If a mod is bad (verifies a cheated run or incorrectly) you remove him and revert the run. It's taken weeks for some runs to be verified in main categories.

I'm not asking to be made mod. I undoubtedly won't, but I would be willing to and would spend time verifying. but add SOMEBODY - I can think of probably 5 people off the top of my head that would have time to verify and would be competent. Why on earth is this not done?

InlandEmpireCuberInlandEmpireCuber, Jack_RJack_R and 6 others like this. 
  DarpeyDarpey

BTW several of those mods with zeroes this 60 days are hard lifters in other time periods... And some of them probably do work im not aware of... That's not really the point. The point is... It's not okay for a run to take weeks to verify when there's an easy solution.

Jack_RJack_R, zsjetu9zsjetu9 and 2 others like this. 
  DarpeyDarpey

It's also important to point out that I didn't include smbce, LL, or LLCE - but to that point those are treated as separate games on speedrun.com and have a unique set of mods

Jack_RJack_R, KosmicKosmic and 2 others like this. 
  NovawolfNovawolf

As much as I have respect for our moderation team, I must agree with what Darpey and others have said. This has to be one of the easiest games to verify runs for, and yet it has one of the longest waiting periods that I've seen. I understand that there are lots of runs that need to be attended to, but most of them are 5 minutes and x seconds long. There are more active and much longer games out there than this one that have faster verification; I'm certain of it. This really shouldn't be the case, especially now that we have 14 mods for this game alone.

NatGoesFastNatGoesFast likes this. 
  DarpeyDarpey

I would disagree that this is one of the easiest games to verify runs for... I might even argue that this is one of the harder games to verify For a variety of reasons that I can't discuss typing on a phone, but that's why you add more mods until it's manageable

Lul_ecks_deeLul_ecks_dee, ThelxinoeThelxinoe and 3 others like this. 
  SuperSonicSuperSonic

I understand it's frustrating for a lot of people waiting on their runs to be verified, but also you need to understand that this site isn't that great. Have any of you seen that "under pressure" message? Whenever any of us mods try to go in the queue to verify runs, it takes a long time to load, or flatout gives us an error message. To be honest, it's very frustrating because we know we have a lot of runs in the queue and we try to get to them. If the site ran smoother, we wouldn't have this issue.

afnannen136afnannen136, Jack_RJack_R and 4 others like this. 
  TecateTecate

I've been on Darpey's side with comments to mods before, so I can understand the frustration he's feeling. I also feel the frustration of his post since it certainly paints things in a bit of an unfair light to some of the mod team. I just wanted to go through a few points, that only really matter so that the rest of the community is not looking at this as "ethan and goofy are great and the rest of the mods are garbage"

A) Judging by verify count is inherently not the best method, as Picante mentioned. But, to appease, lets say we did only judge by verify count. This data is very misleading for two reasons. 1) It doesn't include the Cat Extensions, Lost Levels board, or Lost Levels cat extensions, of which most of the mods are part of all or at least 2-3 of them. 2) It also doesn't include data about rejected runs. Some mods do more rejecting than verifying, because they have a keen eye for fakes or runs that don't follow the rules.

B ) There is a lot of work going on behind the scenes that some mods with 0 verifications per the OP list are undertaking which may have the potential to give an ENORMOUS time save for verifying runs the future. These mods just get looked down on as "doing nothing" if we just went by the OP, when in fact they should be considered MVPs as well. I don't want to go into too many details, but suffice to say we're hopeful of big speedups in verification time thanks to the work these mods are putting in.

C) Looking at a one month or 60 day window is kinda meh. As Picante mentioned, there are ebbs in flow in each mod's ability to verify. Right now, I'm going through a period where I'm able to verify less. I don't really care about defending myself as much as just giving an example -- if you looked at all the boards (SMB1/2J/CE/2JCE) and added in all the rejected runs the prior two months to this month, I was able to plow through a lot. There was one day I had nothing better to do and knocked out 20 in the queue. This month I'm super busy (work, vacations, life stress) ... you'll notice even my streaming time has gone down. I'll return to verifying a lot more when I get through my next vacation. Ebbs and flows will happen. Mods shouldn't be looked down on or praised based off a flawed verification number.

D) If you wanted to get the ball rolling on discussion, which I'm all for, there are far better ways than saying "GG to certain mods" while making it look like other mods don't contribute. It's a negative post. If you want to say, "hey I've noticed the queue has taken a while to verify some runs, is there anything I can do to help, or what else can be done to help speed up the time" that would be a fantastic use of just getting discussion going. Not a passive aggressive post that makes enemies and angels out of mods that don't deserve it.

Yes, we could use a bit of help at times, and that's something we're discussing. I'm not denying that. But the original post comes across as "here are MVPs and here are loser mods," especially with misleading data and a lack of knowledge about what is being done behind the scenes to speed up the process, or make the process more accurate.

I do agree goofy and ethan should get massive praise for the verification work they've put in. However, I'd also welcome a constructive discussion on how we can make things faster, instead of villifying hard working mods.

Lul_ecks_deeLul_ecks_dee, ThelxinoeThelxinoe and 8 others like this. 
  KosmicKosmic

If the point of the post is to drive home that runs should/could be verified faster, why even bring up how many runs are verified by x person? I think a personal message of gratitude towards those who you want to thank, and a forum post purely promoting discussion/presenting solutions for the problem. If that was truly the point, why was nothing said about it in the original post? All this will do is cause onlookers to garner distaste towards certain moderators. That's where I suggest a different approach.

Picante's sentiments are perfect. I don't think there is really much I could add. Various mods write novels in discord and also applications that make timing the game easier.

Can we do something to speed up the verification process? Yes. Definitely. Let's make posts about that then instead 🙂

ThelxinoeThelxinoe, QuivicoQuivico and 6 others like this. 
  DarpeyDarpey

I get SS and Tecate - and again probably could have phrased it in less of a clearly aggressive way. And yes all the things Tecate said are true (and SS)

As an example of Tecate point and piggybacking on picante - Roopert looks bad the past 60 days on paper, but he's probably the most active verifying mod of all time. Roopert is the Mario man. That's just one example.

But add more mods, that's the bottom line. If a run sits in a queue for weeks that's not okay and I don't know how you can argue that it is. Add more mods

Jack_RJack_R and NatGoesFastNatGoesFast like this. 
  TecateTecate

" If a run sits in a queue for weeks that's not okay and I don't know how you can argue that it is."

I don't think anyone is arguing that it's okay??

NatGoesFastNatGoesFast and DarpeyDarpey like this. 
  DarpeyDarpey

@Kosmic I don't mind taking hate for an overly aggressive post... Arguably I should have phrased it differently. Maybe not if this ends up adding mods? It'll end up eventually getting lost in page 5 of the forums anyway or locked. But if it makes the mods add more mods then fantastic.

Jack_RJack_R, zacharylawrencezacharylawrence and NatGoesFastNatGoesFast like this. 
  KosmicKosmic

Ends don't justify means, and the least effective way to inspire people is to tell them they're doing a bad job, especially when you don't have all the facts. I hope you will take a more considerate approach in the future.

Melwing17Melwing17, DarpeyDarpey and 4 others like this. 
  DarpeyDarpey

I legitimately see what kosmic and Tecate are saying. That the post is saying 2-3 mods are awesome and the rest suck. Again, maybe I should have posted the same message in a different way. And to kosmics point, this might seem like a justification for "the ends justify the means" again. But if I get heat and smb adds mods - that'd good for everybody. Alternatively maybe the post could have read "we should add mods" without the aggression. Maybe that would have been the correct move. Let me make it clear that I greatly respect the mods that verify are are active behind the scenes or on other boards.

But it still needs to be said that there is a lack of horsepower in the mod list. There needs to be more people added that are (1) competent (2) are willing to be taught the way to properly verify (3) have time to spend working verifying or otherwise.

This sounds like a broken record at this point, and as Tecate pointed out "nobody is disagreeing with this" but it's not okay that runs take weeks to verify.

Add mods - I've been messaged some of the things that are going on behind the scenes in a positive way, and fantastic - ❤️ to those people that are contributing that don't show up in an arbitrary 60 day leaderboard pull... Seriously... But there's a problem with the current system, and it has a solution.

Jack_RJack_R likes this. 
  TecateTecate

I'm not sure frustrating mods -- whom many of I thought you considered friends or are at least friendly with generally -- is worth it just to generate some discussion on speeding up the verification of a few runs.

But we each have our own priorities I guess.