Forums  /  Super Mario Bros.  /  2 minor tips for 4-2 and 8-2 I haven't seen mentioned
  threecreepiothreecreepio

There's a couple of things I've noticed that don't seem to be in guides, which were useful to me after I found them and that I've noticed over the last few months that many people have not heard of when I bring them up.

I'm not claiming to be the only person to have found them (they're both pretty obvious) and I wouldn't be surprised if they've already been mentioned somewhere around here.

1. In the 4-2 warp zone, if you hold down+left instead of just left as you graze the wall you can save the framerule even if you hit the walljump pixel. After you're clear of the wall, release down. This will make you fall backwards instead of forwards, letting you accelerate back up to speed quicker. A 4-2 walljump pixel normally costs 8 frames, while with this method it costs 3 frames if you hit the pixel (it does not slow you down if you don't hit the pixel.)
Example:

2. For 8-2 BBG, if you have a practise rom that shows a frame counter when you jump (like pellsson's rom,) you want the frame counter to show an odd number while you're falling toward the flagpole. If the number is even you won't hit the bullet in the right position and can't get the trick. Mostly useful when you're getting comfortable with the inputs.

eddiecatgamingeddiecatgaming, Lul_ecks_deeLul_ecks_dee and 10 others like this. 
  Mars02Mars02

The 2nd one I've got nothing to say about. But for the warp zone in 4-2:

Unless playing with a keyboard, or a third-party controller, it's not possible to press 2 buttons on the D-Pad and make it work. Unless it's just up+down and left+right. Also, using more than one button on the D-Pad is forbidden. Unless that's just for up+down and left+right.

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  xeroxfiendxeroxfiend

^^^ this is not true. It is possible to press two buttons on the Dpad, this is used legitimately all the time in runs. Left + right is specifically banned because it's impossible to do on an original controller.

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  threecreepiothreecreepio

I added a video to try to provide a better explanation, I hope it's clearer now Mars!

But yes as xerox says, you definitely can (and do!) use diagonals in runs.

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  youtubeman06youtubeman06

Yea, I use down+right for my BBG setup, so it's possible to input 2 directions on the dpad (of course not left+right, that's TAS only)

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  HitzCritzHitzCritz

Another thing about BBG: When you're about to land on the Bullet Bill and the frame counter says 71 or higher, you've lost optimal BBG.

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  periwinkleperiwinkle

If you're doing the usual "full jump off the middle step" BBG setup, aim for a Sockfolder value between 0DA080 and 0DA270 (inclusive).

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  AndrewGAndrewG

Yea, I use this in a number of places including 1-2G to go left after loading the warp zone (makes it so you don't turn around and your jump doesn't have to be frame perfect). The 4-2 one I never really considered using, but that's interesting.

Suggestions like this always stir my brain. I question whether another FR is possible in 4-2 if you could optimize the movement. Jump to the end of the overhang and press "right" on landing to move to walking speed, then immediately left+down to fall like the TAS. I've tried some similar things to this, but could be helpful to save more frames even if it can't reach the next frame rule.

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  AndrewGAndrewG

I also use this in the walljump room (for the walljump so you don't turn around), but often get nervous about doing it.

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  periwinkleperiwinkle

The (no L+R) TAS turnaround in the 4-2 warp zone only saves a couple of frames compared to hitting the wall, so it's not really worth it to go for it. Basically, holding down+left doesn't really help much since the down press kinda gobbles up the left press, so the way to fall down facing to the right is essentially to decelerate (by dropping to walking speed and then holding left) and come to a stop just short of the edge, then tap right for a few frames to actually walk off (as well as turn around) before holding left as you fall in order to accelerate to the left while still facing right.
The inputs, as well as the spot you have to land on to drop to walking speed, are somewhat precise (at least by RTA standards), and it's really easy to lose way more frames than you'd save if you did it perfectly (for instance, if you have too much rightward speed walking off the edge, then you lose too much time shedding that speed before starting to move to the left), so at the end of the day, I don't think that it's worth trying in runs.

 
  threecreepiothreecreepio

Thanks for all the notes!

@AndrewG Yeah I always expect most things I could come up with to actually save frames have already been checked out pretty thoroughly by others. 🙂 Never know, though. Minor safety strats without losing framerules aren't quite as laboriously explored. You can also just run off the edge in 4-2 and hold left+down, which will always give you a wall jump pixel. Harder to perform imo, and seems to be exactly the same speed as a normal no-pixel 4-2 warp room.

Using it in 1-2G sounds like a good idea.. fortunately i'm quite a ways away from worrying about that. 🙂

 
  AndrewGAndrewG

^I wondered that exact scenario. If running off is just as fast I might consider that strategy whenever I end up going back to any%.

 
  AndrewGAndrewG

The strategy in the warp zone in 4-2 is likely the only way to potentially save the 4-2 FR IMO. Being perfect beforehand just isn't going to happen realistically.

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  periwinkleperiwinkle

I just tested it with a TAS, and running off the edge holding L+D is about 1-2 frames slower than doing the usual strat perfectly. It's also possible to start holding it too early which causes you to not hit the walljump pixel (and thus miss the pipe), and holding it later than optimal can lose another frame or two as well (usually just one). Still pretty close, though, which is interesting.

I also did some math regarding the warp zone. Better warp zone movement alone is not going to be enough to save a framerule. The fastest TAS warp zone movement (with L+R fast accels and all) is 13 frames faster than the perfect RTA warp zone (with the usual hitting-the-wall strat and no fast accels). Half of those frames are due to the L+R fast accel at the start along with the two other fast accels in that room, leaving about 6 frames of time savings that can be attributed to the turnaround strategy itself (which also uses L+R, which we can't do).
Looking at the current fastest no-L+R TAS, the warp zone there is played 6 frames faster than the usual RTA strat. Four of those frames are saved due to fast accels unrelated to the turnaround, meaning that the fancy turnaround itself is only about 2 frames faster than hitting the wall.

In any case, with humans already only barely getting the blazit framerule as it is, saving 2 or even 6 frames is not going to be enough to save another framerule. So, the lightning 4-2 framerule isn't going to be possible without a different (much faster) underground strat.

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