I'm fine with how it is except I think that All Characters should be included, and the maps where ring-outs are possible should be excluded
I do think it would be better to just have the 2 categories on the Full-game leaderboard rather than the Level Leaderboard but I don't really think it matters that much
@MysticManiac The problem is "Level Leaderboards" exist when it's the objective of the run to beat the level. So runners compete for level records, for how low time you beat each LEVEL. Which is not the case.
The idea of having a versus category was not for having a board for Levels, but simply 2 categories (no matter the levels) in which these 2 categories you beat ALL characters or ONE as fast as possible
And that would make 2 simply new categories
In the way the current board is set, a large number of categories were automatically created. A person can have "1 record per level" lol, which again, for a game with this few number of runners, makes no sense.
Level leaderboards would make more sense for completing Wolverine's missions, Elektra's missions, Daredevil's missions etc.
I agree that the full game category would make more sense for Versus. But I'm not in favor of just banning certain maps because they're faster. That's just silly. It's speedrun.com
Well I just think if we allowed the maps where ring outs were possible, the run would be really uninteresting because you would just be easily able to manipulate the AI to ring itself out. If the runs were restricted to the maps without ring outs, then they would be more interesting, like the run Weapon Lord uploaded, and there would be actual skill required in the run
Obviously in a speedrun, we want the fastest times but if the runs are bad, then they're not worth doing. The only way I think these Versus runs would be worth doing is in these maps
I do see that you moved the category from the Level Leaderboard which I definitely think is fine. Also, I think the Versus - All Characters should definitely be added too
Another point about the Versus run. Should the timer start when the map is selected? Or should it start after the loading screen finishes? Because load times may vary and if that's the case, then removing the load time should probably be done
I understand your idea and it should fit in a "Level" Category/leaderboard. Because each level would require a different strategy. The point is you are focusing on the LEVELS. While the point for the new categories we suggested was CHARACTERS.
2 Versus categories. You beat ALL Characters You beat ONE character.
See, the levels matter was a secondary issue.
The point of taking out pit stages from choice is just to bring more competition and skill. Again these categories are not focused on levels.
Later on, we could get a Levels category or something so bridges and pits could be included, same as individual character missions.
The way I thought was the level choice being set in the rules themselves. instead of having so many multiple "sub categories".
Because it means I can have half a dozen record runs, being 1 per stage. Well it was not what I thought all the way lol I was thinking about characters and not stages. But if you guys want to have level runs, I won't condem it. I just not feel like running.
Of course banning venues with pits will require more skill. I just can't see making some obscure leaderboard for the game that doesn't have clear-cut, easy to understand rules. And disallowing three of the venues is just too arbitrary.
I agree that Versus based on character is more interesting than based on venue, but there isn't a way to set up a leaderboard without hundreds of subcategories that would make sense without following the logic of not banning venues.
Another option is making the venue a variable, not a subcategory.
Yeah I was thinking making the venue a variable would make more sense. Maybe you could have 2 different categories for the pit stages and non-pit stages, having the different stages as a variable rather than having 1 subcategory for each stage.
So 1 category would have the non-pit stages where NYC Streets, Roekel's HQ, Avenger's Mansion and Power Plant would be the variables, and a 2nd category with Bridge, Daily Bugle & Grand Central Station as stage variables
The problem with the way it is, is that a runner can say like "Today I will run ALL Characters in NY venue", tomorrow, "ALL characters in Daily budge", next day "All characters in power plant" and so on. So many subcategories and so many runs, with so little runners it really makes no sense. But with venues like variables rather than subcategories it really should be feasible. It was what I was thinking since start. But again, we have to admit that if we allow variables including pit stages, ALL RUNS will be in pit stages for obvious reason. So it would become a "how fast you throw enemies at a stage pit" run instead of a versus fight.
I don't really understand the point on having these pit stages for the time being. These stages can be explored later in other categories with more people.
But if you want them so much, then I really liked @MysticManiac idea, I think it's a way to arrest the case, and everyone's happy =)
We could start with
- Versus One character
- Versus One Character (Pit Stages)
Like Mystic said, one category would have ordinary venues as variables for choice and the other category would have only the pit ones.
I can adjust the variables for this category (and possibly split it) and see how it works out in the coming months to see if anything else needs to be tweaked.
Thank you both for your input!
The problem with banning certain maps and allowing the rest under the same board is that eventually you'll all just run on one map, the one that's fastest. Same goes for what character you play as.
My idea was this Versus Mode - 9 lives only, hard difficulty only (this is to keep it as skill based as possible, despite it being the slower difficulty, but if we don't impose this now then eventually there'll be a subcategory anyway) Venues - Subcategorized Character select - Subcategorized (I would understand if it was preferred to be a variable too, you can always submit runs anyway and view them with the filters option) CPU character - obsoleting variable
Splitting difficulty and number of lives is just nonsense when there's so many other more relevant things to split up, and I do think these are the best/most interesting options (instead of easy 1 life for example).
I think how it is now with the 9 Lives and 9 Lives (No Ring Outs) is ok, at least for now. I agree Hard difficulty is best, easier difficulties can be categories later on but for now, leaving it on Hard is fine.
I agree with Weapon Lord, there shouldn't be subcategories for Venues or Characters, at least not yet, because hardly anyone is running the game yet. I don't really feel there's that much of a difference between maps apart from the ones with ring outs, so that's the only thing that should be split into categories
With lives, this DEFINITELY shouldn't be split into all different lives. I think it's fine with Versus 9 Lives, and if a Versus All Characters category is introduced, which we've talked about but nobody has run yet, leaving that category at 3 lives should be ok. But having different categories for 1 life, 2 lives, 3 lives, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 would be way too much. I agree with Weapon Lord that number of categories and subcategories should be kept low
For now, I think we should leave the leaderboard as is. Those test runs on the leaderboard can probably be deleted and @WeaponLord can probably submit his run to the 9 Lives (No Ring Out) category. Excited to see some more runs for the game, anyone else here thinking of submitting runs?
Yes, submit your runs. It would be interesting to see who can get 9 Lives down the quickest, and with which character. I hope everyone is satisfied with the changes to the leaderboard for now and has fun with the versus mode!
It's all good!
I'm even excited to the Versus All characters 3 lives when you feel it's time to start it I will try a run right away!
Also, I finally have a story any% run. Not a good time, as it's my first succesfull attempt =( I used a lot of safe strats,
but, the game is on =)
@f1 I have 2 Versus runs waiting to be uploaded, but I like to clock my videos after recording and then upload.
I wish that you consider changing the time rules for time starts in CLASH instead of level select, just to eliminate our worries about loads. What you think?
