are any of the mods still here?

i saw that you added the real time without load s and real time with loads...so that great... and it looks like you even switched over any% S-rank to use realtime without loads....

for example mission 3:

even though my time isnt the fastest, it still shows up as number 1, since its the only run that has the real time field filled out. thats great. having realtime be the actual ranking is the way to go...

but for peacenik (or at least some missions) it doesnt look like you changed it... or its weird... i dunno:

http://www.speedrun.com/mgsv/Mission_07_Red_Brass#Peacenik_Perfect_Stealth_No_Kills

soliduz's run show s as number 1 with the time 19:45.... shouldnt it either show soliduz as number 1 with 3m 21s 870ms (rta) or show bre3zer with 3m 37s 518ms (IGT)

what the hell is going on with that mission?

then again mission 10 show me as fastest cause im the only one that filled out realtime....

so did you have to switch each mission individually or what?

also can we get some additional mods? i suggest myself and zefie

For new mods, I second Zefie and also suggest MiniOmegaKing. Personally I'd also want to be a mod but I'm relatively new in the MGS community so maybe not "trusted"

soo its just gets weirder.... soo look at mission 9

http://www.speedrun.com/mgsv/Mission_09_Backup_Back_Down#any

in the level leaderboard my realtime 3:00 run shows up as fastest... but if you click on the mission its listed as second place... wtf?

times should be listed by RTA without load, not by IGT.... why this work in the level overview and not the individual level leaderboard i cant say... cause i dont know what the mod interface of this site look like....

could a mod please shine some light on this?

Well, I don't know how comfortable you'd be with a mod that barely runs the game anymore but I'd be up for it I guess? I can second all the other people suggested in here, you clearly care enough about the game to want to fix this stuff up.

How was it decided that RTA should be the official way to time our runs?

For mission 9 it's absolute garbage to go by RTA. There is no skill involved in putting up a run where you purposely run down IGT with a phantom cigar. It defeats the whole purpose of speedrunning the mission, because the whole point of the mission is to eliminate the vehicles before the time runs out. So we basically skip everything.

I realize the games mechanics and dynamics makes it near impossible to set rules we can all agree with. It doesn't matter either way because people will still BabyRage about it - like I am doing atm.

But why RTA? Is there a thread that someone made to cast a vote? Or was it just an arbitrary decision by a mod?

There were several discussion threads on this subject, they're still openly available right here on this forum if you'd like to look through them.

That's 2 missions. 2 out of ~45 or so where IGT could (arguably) be a better choice, and it can easily be fixed by changing your sort parameters from RTA to IGT.

You know what I was going to suggest a few ideas but in mist of writing all of it I realized something. Is even worth it? will any one even care?

This game is so broken from a speedrun standpoint.

I will speedrun this game with out caring about the boards. Good luck everyone

we obviously care... otherwise we wouldnt be posting here...

and how is the game broken? do you mean full game runs, cause yeah those involve a lot of waiting. havent tried one yet. but IL runs are fine. some mission are really easy, some are pretty hard, i dont know what you mean with broken... unless ofcourse your talking about the broken ingame timer?

also your argument against rta is actually an argument FOR RTA.... if the phantom cigar strat is faster and "skips everything"... well thats a GOOD THING, that's WHAT WE WANT. we want to go fast... skipping a 15 minute timer is exactly what we want... now if the IGT doesnt show that, its broken and we are forced to use RTA...

you (or us) not "liking" the the strat cause it "ruins" the mission should in no way affect how we time the mission. the prupose of a mission 9 any% speedrun is NOT the destroy all vehicles, its to finish the mission as FAST AS POSSIBLE with ANY % done with the tools given to us. any% in this mission means destroy 1 vehicle. there are lots of strats i dislike, but put up with because their faster.

the only questions that matter are:

what is fastest?
and
does the IGT reflect what is ACTUALLY fastest?

if the igt does not accuratly reflect what is fastest its USELESS and we have to use rta.

also the the cigar strat is only fastest for any% of mission 9, since (as far as i know) its impossible to get s-rank using the cigar strat. just last weekend i made a new record for mission 34 (mission 9 extreme) srank/peacenik and you have to destroy (almost) every vehicle if you wanna get s-rank.

and now that ive timed some missions rta i gotta say, its lot easier then i thought. for missions with no cigar, cutscene or boxskip the IGT actually holds up. for missions with loading time (cutscene or boxskip) all you really have to do is time it start to finish and then subtract the amount of time that its was loading...

and the best argument of ALL against igt is: reflex/pills/injury slomo mode!

do you really want to play the game in permanent slowmotion, taking 20 minutes to do a single "2minute" run of a mission? thats doesnt sound like a speedrun, that sounds more like a slowrun 😃 and if we use igt every single mission will just be pure 100% slomo abuse bullshit. talk about zero skill involved... walking slowly for 20 minutes is NOT a speedrun... its a slowwalk (lol, ok ill stop now)

also if theres no skill involved in my mission 9 any% run (screw you :P)... well go beat my time then, should be easy, right? 😃 ill prove you wrong by just beating your time using my superior skill at mgs 😛

Mods, it's great and all that you're approving runs, but we REALLY need to hear from you so we can get stuff sorted

Everyone is allowed to run the game in the manner they see fit. The leaderboard support both kinds of run. Please don't feel as though the default timing method on speedrun.com is a prescription of what you should do.

The determination as to which kind of run is "best" is not for the moderators to make. We're just trying to reflect what people have been doing with the game. The default timing method is not a judgment on anyone.

The thing right now is that there's no consistency between what is the default timing method (from what Dekuking posted). If that's solved, then I'm fine with that.

However, this doesn't apply to the Cyborg Ninja/Raiden restriction (as per the other thread). Seems that everybody was on board with allowing them, so that needs to be changed in the rules and those seperate (empty) categories removed. Also we still haven't decided what to do about new/old versions in terms of the chopper skip being patched which is a massive deal for full-game.

I still believe more mods need to be added. But we need a super mod for that I think. The fact that it took a week from the creation of this thread to hear from a mod is a pretty bad sign despite the fact there's 5 mods. Or 2 weeks since the creation of the thread about chopper skip being fixed. 3 weeks since the Raiden/CN thread. You get the point.

I've contacted Theenglishman on Twitch to see if he can help us out there.

I'm really not sure what's causing the timer inconsistencies.

As for adding mods, I'm in favour of making you, and anyone else who has the time and inclination to help, a mod, though that determination is up to the super mods.

For switching the IL tables, I'd rather see the misc/main categories swapped around, since we already have all these runs that are optimized for no raiden. Although, that's a bit of a labour intensive thing, since the site doesn't let you apply the same run to multiple categories, so we'd have to copy them all manually, which isn't the end of the world, but if people want to do raiden runs, then they're going to be obsoleted soon anyways. So, we could just make the existing misc categoriers primary without migrating everything. In that case, I'd wait until there are at least a few runs in those categories before migrating them over.
In short, my question to everyone is: do we want a no raiden misc category or not?
In either case, you can start making runs with raiden right now, and they'll still be there when we do the switch.

For the full game patch split, should it be "every version after this date" and "every version before this date" or "present versions" and "older versions" which gets updated with every patch?

I'll try to get all of this category stuff sorted tomorrow when I'm free. I'd just really like input on the raiden thing because those changes might be difficult to revert. I'm sorry I haven't been active as of late, and I hope I can make the leaderboard suit everyone's needs.

Rather than obsoleting most of the old runs by making them a misc category, we could have a variable for whether or not CN/Raiden are used or not. That way the runs that are optimized without Raiden are preserved without taking up too much space on the boards by extra categories. Seems like the best solution to me.

As for the patch split, I think it's best to have Current and Older Versions. I'm not sure when the Chopper Skip was fixed and it would be kinda arbitrary to just decide on a date to make the split. After that fix, I feel like the most recent version will generally be faster due to new items being added. Unless other things are also fixed, which I'm not sure about.

I'm glad you're willing to help improve the leaderboard. Kind of a shame it got off to kind of a bad start so now we're left with the mess.

Yeah, a lot of momentum was behind how they are presently arranged at the time of game launch, and I'm glad that's starting to turn around.

Right, I forgot about variables. That seems the best solution. I've actually switched it over now, since if there's any objections, I can switch it right back.

The thing with making it be present patch/older patches is do we remove all the runs from the present patch category every time there's a patch? Or, do we only switch them when we determine that it affects the run?

Technically they should be moved every time there's a patch. Though I'm pretty sure that means the Current Patch boards will be empty a lot of the time. Not sure what would be best. Anyone else wanna chip in?

The addition of the character used variable is good. Though the rules still need to be adjusted for PSNK ILs and NG+ PSNK Full-Game. Rules are also missing for most of the other Full-Game categories. Other than that I'm pretty happy with how this is turning out!

i dont know what you did, you but whatever it was it made it worse...

i submitted a 1:06 run of mission 7 last week and i showed up correctly as fastest

now it doesnt show up at all anymore cause its marked as obsolete (cause the leader board think my 3:22 run is faster?)

http://www.speedrun.com/run/9me7w88y

http://www.speedrun.com/mgsv/Mission_07_Red_Brass#any_S_rank

pls change ALL IL leader boards to rank according to "Real time without loads" and NOT "In-game time"

it seemed like you had fixed this but now its as bad as ever. pls fix

You should only really have to adjust to current patch when a new patch is demonstrably slower than another for that specific run. No need to update it constantly.

As for real time without loads, I'm honestly not too sure if it should really be implemented as the primary sort, since there's no automatic livesplit plugin (yet?(?)(???)) and timing loads out from a video can be very tedious. Console runs should still be comparable to runs on the same platform, the only real problem here is PC, which yet again ruins speedrunning for everyone. 😃

could we replace the "all missions" (not ng+) category (which is pretty much impossible) with a new category "first ending ng+ (29 Missions)" with the rules "complete mission 1-31 (no mission 2, or 22) as fast as possible"

this is category id like to run, its short enough to not be a total pain to run, it involves no additional setup like setting up a new save... and most importantly... you wont have to run the god damn prologue or any of the repeat missions.

That's such a specific thing, I'd rather wait until there's a run of a category like that before adding it. If and when you submit it, the category can be added.