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Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Forum  /  Moderation issues. This is not an attack.
  BooskopBooskop

This post is not meant to attack anyone - I am trying to address an issue that's been around for a while now.

The moderators here aren't showing much - if any - interest in helping out people by answering their questions in the forums, actively being involved in discussions, or solving problems.

I checked the moderators' forum posts and both of the mods haven't posted more than 1 or 2 messages/answered any questions in the forum in the past year. I know KZ is going through some shit rn so I don't wanna step on him or anything, but he wasn't active on these forums either back when he still was supermod.

I have the feeling that the mods here are more involved in other GTAs and not really interested in SA - which is absolutely fine - but it should also ring a bell that we need more involved people as moderators! People who actively run the game, and are checking sr.c forums regularly (even once a week would be a huge step-up from the current situation). I think it'd be nice to have at least some mods or verifiers that are remotely interested in the game, hence I suggest bringing in people that run the game, or are actively involved in the community otherwise.

I'm at least glad KZ added 123Robot and DiskoSpider as verifiers - they seem to deliver good work and I hope they will start to be increasingly active on the forums and maybe be installed as moderators soon™ (if they wish to become moderators obviously).

Just a few examples of "pending actions":
https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/34ka2
https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/shivd

Making decisions is hard - I understand. But there are hardly any responses from moderators in these (and MANY other!) threads, and nothing is done. No decision is made, no action is taken. Can you guys please get more involved, or try to find people who are willing to be more involved? There are plenty of people who are quite active in the GTA SA community. Ask around!

Again - this post is not meant as an attack. Just meant to address this issue.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

AjuhAjuh, UppermostUppermost and 18 others like this. 
  MasakovskeMasakovske
(edited: )

imagine people that don't run SA as their main game being moderators.

There are a lot of cool guys that could make as great mods: https://prnt.sc/ufslxo

Like, seriously, do we still think that people that don't or almost don't run the game know better what's better for the lbs than the runners themselves?

P.S. also glad Disko and Robot got on board, these are some steps already

HatimiHatimi, UppermostUppermost and 10 others like this. 
  gui93gui93

I would like to to seize this opportunity - since it is pertinent - to share my disagreement about the leaderboard issue involving the Windows Store version that was already discussed in the Discord server.

Crucial already spoke to Caz and maybe to other mods also, so bringing back the same arguments here is superfluous. Considering that, it's not logic to keep my runs posted here.

Although this is probably going to be overlooked by the mods just as all the mentioned issues by Booskop, it still worths a try, imo.

UppermostUppermost, MasakovskeMasakovske and 11 others like this. 
  EzeKahEzeKah

Thank you Booskop for pointing out these points that have been a reason for discussion for a time, I completely agree with you.

The moderation of this game becomes more and more meaningless when it is not added to people who actually run SA as their main game, especially when SA is not exactly a dead game.

TomyRnTomyRn, NashoNasho and 3 others like this. 
  BackmadeJayBackmadeJay

Time and time again we seem to run into moderation issues.

I did say that me being super mod would not be a smart choice and my life is too busy already to be a mod and knowing the game well enough to be a verifier. Where I would see myself at but that doesn’t ever solve the issue at hand cause as I said earlier my life is already too busy.

There’s a lot of new runners who have taken this game up and have shown that they can be very serious runners and I am enjoying seeing their runs on here!

However, I mention many times on different rules should be altered or changed or even remove or add on to. I would also like to see a vote on those changes that would be fair to everyone and not short come voting that we have seen in the past. Luckily we haven’t had that in a while! But sadly an issue has been brought up many times over and yet the moderators haven’t dared to comment on it on discord nor here on SR. I know they’ve seen the comments on both platforms and yet they still remain silent and that’s not true leadership... I don’t hate any of these moderators let me make that clear there is one I do have personal feeling about but it’s not even worth mentioning cause it’s not that huge of a deal!

It’s obvious that the community wants a change not only because of one runner personal feelings about something but us as runners coming up to the same conclusion that things do need to change! Let’s vote, let’s see something, tell us why it’s wrong to have this or that, tell us anything so we know we are being heard!

I don’t think we need a new reform and the “top” runners aren’t the only ones should being considered of getting moderation.

Let me say this there is nothing wrong with having an empty board! It’s not a huge hassle to delete a board that has no runs on it after a year, yet the GTA Community sees a empty board as something completely horrible and a disgrace it seems and I still haven’t ever got a message explaining why that is. Hell look at what happen to IL’s a few years back and when we where trying to fix that I made comments to change things yet once again I was ignored like a child asking to be friends to an adult.

I fear nothing will come of this and this thread will be locked or deleted and all of us will be called some variation of “cry babies” it’s sad that this seems to come around every few years and good people stop being mods due to the drama or stress of putting up with dumb people.

ShiinyuShiinyu likes this. 
  crazycharliehcrazycharlieh
(edited: )

I'll take it a step back for you guys. Running leaderboards as active as these, with this many different runners is a real pain.

Back in the day, (2014) the runners were pretty much confined to a few people in the GTA IRC channel. The number of people involved meant that there was a decent conversation between themselves (usually) and they'd agree and update the rules etc.

Now, there are loads of runners, split across various discords, all with their own ideas. You want leadership, but noone seems robust enough to a) put their foot down and say "no, we're doing xyz" and b ) suck it up and take it on the chin when things do not go their way. You can't please everyone.

My advice to you folks going forward would be; find a leader by whichever means seems best, and respect their decisions.

You'll need someone who knows the history and the runs of past and present. Ideally a runner, but that's not strictly necessary. You'll need someone who can properly articulate their decisions.

Perhaps make another thread and get the word out on discord for anyone who thinks they might be able to give it a shot to register their interest then have a vote.

Good luck.

ShiinyuShiinyu and BackmadeJayBackmadeJay like this. 
  TeynTeyn

As someone who has been watching SA runs for a good few years however I only just recently started running I may not have a huge voice in this but I would like to share my observations.

There are clear frustrations from some of the top runners on how the leaderboards are currently set up especially regarding the 10 year anniversary/remastered version of the game.
This frustration has been voiced several times to the supermods and nothing official has been said or done.

cazpersky does not seem to care about the state of the board, he said this specific issue was 'being discussed' but then of course nothing came of it. Just to further highlight how little he cares, he decided that he would go live and stream some GTAIII with the title "any issues with SA moderation? come here!" here is a short clip - joke or not you can clearly tell how little he cares as he won't even respond to this thread.
https://clips.twitch.tv/EnergeticNastyMinkStrawBeary

I am not trying to start a witch hunt against him, if you don't have time or you don't want to deal with the SA board then that's fine, but then please step down and nominate a new supermod or just give 123Robot or DiskoSpider the supermod as they would be happy to work with the community to decide who should be the new supermod.

Caz and Hoxi, if you don't want to deal with SA runners or the leaderboard that's fine, but currently you are in charge of these leaderboards and it is your responsibility to liaise with the community on issues.

UppermostUppermost, WizzWizz and 10 others like this. 
  18261826
(edited: )

VC runners: omg mods verify my run for a TWO DAYS, they are dead! 😱
SA runners: omg mods verify my run for a FIVE DAYS! I should make some forum post about dumb moderators 😠
III runners: oh, I missed Powdinet's cycle and run verification will take 2 weeks. It's ok, i won't wait for a month at least 😳

ShiinyuShiinyu, NashoNasho and 6 others like this. 
  BackmadeJayBackmadeJay

Not one person complaining about how long it is to verify a run. Reread the post my friend.

ThunderThunder, ShiinyuShiinyu and 6 others like this. 
  hoxihoxi

The issue about the remastered version currently isn't really being discussed because it's not an issue right now due to absolute lack of runs on that version in any other category except Any% (where it is pretty much required). Once runs on that version start popping up, then we'll definitely discuss it.

About verification times, I fully admit, I've been slacking incredibly when it comes to that. And yes, I haven't been checking the forums enough. I'll do my best to rectify that.

And concerning new moderators, Robot and Disko have been doing good work so far, but I personally wouldn't be against having someone that's also more active than me/Caz. It definitely would make the community happier, at least IMO.

Caz going live with a title that Teyn mentioned is definitely inappropiate, and quite honestly, childish. There's no doubt about it, at least I think so.

I'll do my best to be more active, because I've definitely been lacking on that front.

WizzWizz, ShiinyuShiinyu and 9 others like this. 
  18261826
(edited: )

>Not one person complaining about how long it is to verify a run. Reread the post my friend.

@BackmadeJayBackmadeJay no one would've been complaining about moderators being inactive if there weren't problems with verification times, think yourself big guy. other moderators functions are

1) helping other players, but this can be done by other runers aswell
2) editing leaderboards e.g. differing remastered and non-remastered versions, but community still haven't made a decision about it, it is not mods fault it still wasn't done.

 
  BooskopBooskop
(edited: )

I can't speak for everyone here (and neither can you btw @1862) but this is what I'm trying to convey:

In my opening post I am not talking about verification times.
When submitting a run it always states it can take up to 3 weeks sometimes.
So anything below that is not an issue to me personally.

I am just stating that forum messages with questions, problems, ideas seem to be ignored or go unnoticed (or end up under a pile of other notifications as caz explained).

I have personally no problems with the verification times.
Don't put words in to people's mouths please.

BackmadeJayBackmadeJay and ThunderThunder like this. 
  BackmadeJayBackmadeJay

@1862

I can think for myself and I’m sure you saw my post above where I state everything what I thought about the moderation team of this game. Also your comment had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Only place to find that topic is on discord and that topic there was all over the place.

The issue at hand was that the moderation team wasn’t active on the forms and they haven’t been addressing the issues what have been mentioned many times. Now both hoxi and Caz has made comments and address those issues not to the full point of my liking but I do accept what they have said.

To dare claim that I can’t think for myself and me showing my own stand point on the issue is just ignorance on your behalf. I don’t have an issue with you but just take ownership of making a pointless comment and stop trying to shift the topic.

ThunderThunder and BooskopBooskop like this. 
  123robot123robot

As a recent addition to the moderator team, I'd like to give my own re-assurances, having now seen this thread, that I would like to make sure people are happy with how things are being run.

In my previous position of Verifier for the last month or so, I was more focused on adjusting in getting familiar with the verifying process between my various other commitments. It's a shame to see that that there has been discontent with other areas, but personally I'm thankful for any such constructive criticism, as it makes it clearer where I should be focusing my attention.

The forums have not been something I have typically been putting much focus on so far, I will admit - again, so far I've seen my job as mainly just verifying the runs - but from this point on I would like to dedicate myself to keeping an active eye on here and making sure people's voices feel heard about issues they want to raise with us. I want to make sure I'm doing my job as moderator properly and make sure people don't feel ignored in what they have to say. So from this point on you certainly have my word that I will be listening - I hope I can show that as time progresses. Thank you to everyone who raised their concerns in this thread - I encourage you to continue doing that by making threads or contacting mods regarding any other problems you may want addressed or discussed!

With regards to the specific issues mentioned in the first post, it would appear they have been largely resolved or are in the process of it, however I will be keeping up with any changes there may be.

ThunderThunder, RiekeltRiekelt and 6 others like this. 
  BackmadeJayBackmadeJay

I’m sure you’re going to do good man! Thank you for your time and thank you for being apart of the moderation team!

ShiinyuShiinyu, TeynTeyn and 123robot123robot like this. 
  TeynTeyn

Just to follow up the conversation regarding the Windows Store version - I get why mods want to delay the decision as there are no runs on it just yet, but that's kind of the point.

Separating the WS version and the other versions right now would not affect anyone negatively right now.
Let's say 3 people finish runs and one of them is a new WR. The mod team finally decides to deal with the issue that (most of) the runners are not happy about the fact that the categories are the same. Now the 3 runners could suddenly argue that this was not discussed, and it could leave them very unhappy, possibly driving them away from running the game.

I think setting things straight right now would be important.

BooskopBooskop, ShiinyuShiinyu and 3 others like this.