[quote ="orsa"] this leaderboard is a shitshow right now.

here's my opinion, and i think it's pretty reasonable:

remove ps2 emulator times. there's absolutely no reason that these should be staying on the leaderboards when they're at least 30 seconds faster than XC GC, let alone PS2.

separate xc with ps1. make all versions of xc a miscellaneous category, since xc has the advantage on loads (and lag, most of the time, although i will admit this is a bit weird with turtloid rain lag. it would be nice if we could separate it further, but i don't think it's realistic).

for ps1 i would standardize on sds and normal, due to inconsistent loading times and the majority of ps1 runs being on normal. i have no opinion on what to do with XC, and that should be left up to the people who actually run on XC (cyber, 8bit, etc).

timing out loads fails to take into account differences in version (ps2 vs gcn xc with shark player) and lag (ps1 vs xc, again, most of the time). [/quote]

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Standardizing PSX isn't a bad thing since I don't intend on running that version but for XC, I'd see nothing wrong with putting all difficulties on the same leaderboard, so in essence we'd trim the categories lists from 18 (yikes) to only 6 . Easy fix, everyone is satisfied, just would need to know what exactly is agreed upon by PSX community as "Standardized"

You need to actually post good replies cyberdemon with proof and whatnot because atm you are doing nothing but clogging up this thread. PSX version of X6 is actually the most popular and you could argue the PSX record is actually the most optimized

Until we can figure out a common ground leader board will not accept any new runs, nor shall it be edited.

@cyberdemon531 that's not a good argument, like it any sense of the word.

So you propose to ban future submissions of PS2 emu but keep the current ones on? How is this remotely competent?

PS2 Emu was NEVER accepted in the community so please get this through your head

Yeah the "look" of the board is gonna be hard to do, that's gonna take some time.

We're not alienating emu runners, only runs done on PS2 emulator as it is faster than the fastest version on console (XC GCN), this is it. PSX emulators are more lightweight and more legitimate.

As for other suggestions, I'm down for just combining all versions on a full leaderboard but I'd need others to weigh in. I'd definitely want difficulty separate as I find it dumb that 1 runner can hold multiple places on the LB (as it stands, 1 runner can hold 6 spots)

I'm not really for removal of loading times because it would not account for lag for psx version, and it'd be dumb to force moderators to time out loads in a console game.

@SubStylee

XEBRA is currently the most accurate PSX emulator.

I think Substylee brings up a valid point about removing Normal since every speed games uses "Fastest vs. Hardest" in their rule sets. For XC at least, removing Normal times sounds like a good idea, but then again all difficulties can be different categories

For emulation:

At this point and time, PS2 emulation should be completely removed form this leaderboard. If new versions of PS2 emulation were to come out and happen to be more accurate, then further tested should be done.

If PS2 Emulation were to be allowed, it must be hidden by default, which in essence would hide completely valid PSX emulation times (the feature is an All or None function), so it's just better to ban PS2 emulation until more accurate emulators are available.

For XC separation from PSX:

This leaderboard should reflect the current leaderboard setup on the mmrta leaderboard, no exceptions. As it stands, PSX is it's own category and XC is it's own. I'd imagine PC would be in same board as PSX but no one has tested that.

For difficulty separation:

Different difficulties are different categories, every single speed game does this. Comparing a run done on Easy to a run done on Normal is not even remotely possible. Same thing as comparing easy to Xtreme.

That being stated, however, there's been a potential discussion on banning all but normal difficulty in PSX version (as well as FDS), so it could easily be reflected in XC to just group all together, which is something I'd have no issue with since XC is only platform that actually uses easy difficulty in competitive settings.

In essence I am for this point but w/ a little bit more detail:

Make the standard PS1 and separate XC into different categories, while banning PS2 emu (Until a later time in which PS2 emulations becomes accurate) and standardizing the most accurate ps1 emus.

EDIT: Discord server is another link

If actions can be buffered from the pause menu (meaning you can hold a button in, unpause, and then that action is peformed), then IGT wouldn't be needed but I'd like for people to test this w/ input viewers if possible. Otherwise IGT looks like a good thing to switch to.

If the only advantage pause buffering has is to make some skips easier, then I see no need to stick to RTA as the advantages of timing IGT instead of RTA are really numerous.

Yeah I really don't like this either, but if more people agree that the tokens need delievered then we'll add that in, need more input before this is official tho (the category name was the main reason I didn't think it'd be worth it to put tokens in well, unless you define a cheat as a collectible then idk lol)

So I'm going to revisit this again and try to put a definition I think would be best case for this game.

All Collectibles

This would be the category name and, having thought about what this entails, it would mean the following:

1. Get all health upgrades
2. Get all Spellstone (kinda goes hand in hand with health)
3. Get all Krazoa spirits
4. Get all staff upgrades (includes the 3 magic upgrades; quake is not needed, only super quake)
5. Get all maps
6. Get final scarab bag and bomfadad bag
7. Get the lanturn, zoom googles, tricky's ball, blowhorn, Cloudrunner Flute (any item that's permanent in C-stick menu)
8. Get all secret tokens (do not have to be delievered)

Things not required:

Any story mode item that is a one time use (like golden root) and perishable items like bomb spores and fuel cells.

Runs for this game must be recorded using a capture card as of August 10, 2015.

Runs submitted / verified prior to this date will be valid and allowed to stay on the board.

I understand, either way this is still a great step in the right direction, just wanted to understand from a coder / admin perspective.

Pausing doesn't affect the IGT so if we time by IGT we gotta allow IGT strats, no exceptions.

As for rules on the deaths, it'd suck but it's the easiest to just ban mission checkpoint restarts, if that's all right with everyone.

Also the "pause and leave" rule is pretty dumb lol, I'd not worry about that one.

While I understand that from a community perspective, I was looking more for a site wide perspective. Is this meant to be a site where any speed run ever done can be found? Or is this meant to be a site where a community can put their times on a leaderboard.

This may seem like a dumb question but to elaborate, in the About it states it is to be a "one-stop shop for speedrunning leaderboards."

Does this mean that this site is meant to be a collaborate data base of every speed run known, regardless of whether the run is done on console, console emulators, community accepted emulators, and banned from competition emulators?

I am asking this because I moderate and speed run games that have issues w/ them being emulated, such as Star Fox, and atm we currently ban any emulated run from being accepted as no emulator is remotely accurate for those games.

Though reading this site's About is making me wonder if this is the right thing to do. I know it's community driven how the rules are stated, but is the goal to host only "legitimate" speed runs?

I define legitimate speed runs as ones done either on console or on a community accepted emulator slower than or equal to console.

I agree, it's not that hard to calculate in any case. I want more feedback from runners (SGDQ is going on so we'll have to wait) before I collect all input and make a decision