Definition of 100%
9 years ago
Pennsylvania, USA

This is something I feel needs to be figured out and agreed upon. I have an idea on what should be the definition of 100%, but it must talked and agreed upon before we can implement this officially on this site.

Technically, the "game defined" definition of 100% is completion of the game in which every objective has been completed. This doesn't fit well in typical 100% runs since there are additional items / content to get, but those do not factor in the percentage counter at all.

So, let's discuss this and come to an agreement.

Växjö, Sweden

You should post your idea of a definition of 100% so we have something to base the discussion on.

Pennsylvania, USA

Afaik 100% means a complete inventory + max upgrades.

Based off this, that would mean all 4 health upgrades, all 3 magic upgrades, all staff powers (super quake has to be achieved, though I'm not too sure if it's a requirement for ground quake to ever be gotten), all tricky powers, all maps, bomfadad bag upgrade, all inventory items, all tokens (though I feel that they must be both collected and put in the well), max scarab bag upgrade, all krazoa spirits, and all spell stones.

Even though certain objectives can be skipped, those items are quest specific and don't really factor into collectables.

I may have missed stuff, but I think this is a good definition. The only issue I see is about the tokens, so let's answer this:

Must tokens be taken to the well? Why?

Colorado, USA

Here's what I think should be included in 100%: -All Heart upgrades -All Magic Upgrades -All Spellstones -All Krazoa Spirits -All Maps -All Staff Upgrades -All Tricky Upgrades -Firefly Lantern, BlowHorn, Zoom Goggles -Bafomdad Bag -Biggest Scarab Bag

These are all part of the START menu and I think that is what should be included in 100%. I've seen some 100% categories that do that such as Paper Mario:TTYD. Anything in the C STICK inventory should not be included since some items disappear anyways such as the tokens or just about every "key item". Fuel cells should also not be ,thus eliminating the need to get all 75 scattered around the game.

I think the C STICK menu should fall under a "Max%" category, if you will. This would also include max fuel cells (255) including the 75 scattered around the game. All Bafomdads collected (some are missable, I believe.) All tokens. Max grubtubs/ bombspores/scarabs/etc.

This is just my opinion, and it would be great for the whole community to agree upon something since I'd LOVE to move on to 100%.

Scotland

Okay quick question.

Getting all the Krazoas is a given, as well as Spellstones, but do they have to be delivered? I know not delivering doesn't add them to the pause screen, which could be a problem, but also delivering them makes the run practically glitchless and a complete bore imo. We'll know that we've collected them and it'll be obvious by the fact they are in the C Stick inventory, so that's why I'm unsure.

I've wanted to go back and get a better 100% time for a while, but the fact that there's so many unanswered questions is really a problem for this game.

Colorado, USA

I think they should be delivered, because that way, the statistics on the file select menu will progress and lead up to 99% at the end instead of 31%. Of course, the last place we save warp is at Dragon Rock, and after the game is beaten, it doesn't save. By this logic, airswim to cape claw would be irrelevant since we get the 100 capacity scarab bag right after returning the 2nd Krazoa spirit. Yet, if the C STICK menu isn't relevant for 100%, then walled city 1 skip would still be relevant since all it skips is getting the two silver and gold teeth. Hell, I guess I'll have to go back to improving my time in any% if 100% won't work out.

Scotland

See, if you do the skip in Walled City, it actually stops the percent counter at around 50 or 60 because you don't get the teeth and it was only adding Cape Claw early that made it 31%. No matter what, if we glitch it doesn't add to 99% and that's the really irritating part with how this game adds it up.

Colorado, USA

Should have figured it would do that. At that point, there wouldn't be any sequence breaks if the file select menu is part of 100%. Tokens and fuel cells are still my biggest issue. If all 75 fuel cells scattered around dinosaur planet were to be included in 100%, it should be the same deal for all bafomdads collected since they're all a one time get. It would just be too hectic for 100%. What really irritates me is that tokens and fuel cells are both on the C Stick menu. So it might not makes sense to include one but not the other. Honestly, I don't blame the community for not coming up with a definition for 100% yet. The game just doesn't help.

Växjö, Sweden

If the definition would only be "get 100% on in game counter" that would mean that it is basically glitchless Any%, right?

There are four different ways of doing this as far as I can tell:

  • "100% in game counter" Definition: The in game counter tells you you have 100%. Positive: Easy to keep track of the runs that are legit. Negative: Basically "Glitchless Any%".

  • "100% in game counter with full inventory" Definition: Get 100% on the screen and also get everything on your inventory that stays there (which means, stuff you don't need that can be traded and such is not included) Positive: Keeps up with most other 100% definitions. Negative: The inventory screen is retarded and you would have to know what to get and what not to get, the inventory screen has a bunch of items you can lose as well.

  • "100% full inventory" Definition: Get everything in the games inventory that you can not lose. We ignore the in game counter. Positive: Breaks the game for the category while still collecting stuff. Negative: Ignoring the in game counter the game has for itself seems weird.

  • "100% all collectables" Definition: Includes everything you can only get ones, as cheat codes, the labyrinth stuff and all of that, as well as full inventory. Whether or not this should include 100% in game counter idk. Positive: Hard to argue that it isn't 100%. Negative: We would need to define everything that counts as a collectable.

Some of this might be wrong, I am not that into this game. But based on my understanding so far these are our alternatives.

Venezuela

the ingame counter marks 99% regardless of getting the magic meter enhancements as well as getting items such as tricky's ball, so honestly the ingame counter is useless since it only tracks story progress, and it never gets to 100% anyway.

100% collectables would be ok, if they weren't purchased from the shop, so no, it should not count. I basically agree with what Zewing said.

EDiT: when it comes to delivery, we should still deliver the first spellstone, otherwise how are we gonna get the second krazoa spirit? We could not deliver it, but then again, I think that's actually slower than not glitching to cape claw, since the time we spend on krazoa palace we save the time we revisit cape claw. I think I managed to confirm doing cape claw glitch was slower, but that was a long time ago, I dont remember.

The counter would get stuck at 64% I think instead of 30 something, when we still do the glitch to get to red eye, but we get the super quake near endgame.

Technically we dont "not deliver" but not getting the super quake when it's intended will stop marking the spirits and stones on the progress pause screen, I think.

It shouldnt matter I think, since we still need to get them to get to the end game, is not like we have to skip them.

If we need the items to show on progress pause screen then gents, 100% would be just glitchless any%

Pick your poison

Pennsylvania, USA

So I'm going to revisit this again and try to put a definition I think would be best case for this game.

All Collectibles

This would be the category name and, having thought about what this entails, it would mean the following:

  1. Get all health upgrades
  2. Get all Spellstone (kinda goes hand in hand with health)
  3. Get all Krazoa spirits
  4. Get all staff upgrades (includes the 3 magic upgrades; quake is not needed, only super quake)
  5. Get all maps
  6. Get final scarab bag and bomfadad bag
  7. Get the lanturn, zoom googles, tricky's ball, blowhorn, Cloudrunner Flute (any item that's permanent in C-stick menu)
  8. Get all secret tokens (do not have to be delievered)

Things not required:

Any story mode item that is a one time use (like golden root) and perishable items like bomb spores and fuel cells.

Venezuela

I dont like the idea of getting the tokens to just leave them there in the inventory, when I did my run I created a new, clean save file to unlock everything with the cheat tokens again, but this is something i can let slide.

Aside from that, I'm okay with this.

Pennsylvania, USA

Yeah I really don't like this either, but if more people agree that the tokens need delievered then we'll add that in, need more input before this is official tho (the category name was the main reason I didn't think it'd be worth it to put tokens in well, unless you define a cheat as a collectible then idk lol)

Colorado, USA

I'm completely fine with these requirements. I'm really neutral on the tokens, though. Yes, we should only deliver them if the cheats are considered collectibles.

Phoenix, AZ, USA

I'm in agreeance with those requirements, too. Kinda reminds me of Spyro almost, and the run would be super aggressive. :D

Växjö, Sweden

We should deliver the tokens. I honestly want 100% to be as much as possible without it being stupid. Finishing everything that has to do with equipment seems reasonable. And please, call it 100% and not "All Collectibles".

Switzerland

I know this is an old topic and I don't even run this, but the category still isn't implemented yet, so I can't hurt to give my opinion on this.

If I was to decide, 100% would include everything minus maxing out the fuel cell counter and Bafomdads. I would also include delivering the tokens. Let me explain why:

Fuel cells It's obvious that maxing the fuel cell counter is dumb and pointless, I think everyone agrees here. But I would really want the run to include the "overworld fuel cells" or whatever you want to call them. For me, skipping them would feel incomplete. There's actually a game that has an item with almost the exact same situation, Quest 64 http://www.speedrun.com/quest64 and its "spirits". The only difference is that the overworld spirits in Quest 64 are not permanently missable (unless you enter the very final dungeon and save). I could perfectly see SA solving the problem the exact same way.

Bafomdads Bafomdads are limited and missable before the "point of no return", just like fuel cells. You'd think it makes sense to get them, but there is a big problem: The bag for them only carries 10 and there are are more Bafomdads in the game than that! This means that in a speedrun, you'd either have to die just to collect more, or you'd come up with some silly rule that you can just walk through them and pretend you collected them. For that reason, I think this item shouldn't be required (although the bag should).

Tokens I know it doesn't really give you something in the savefile when delivering the tokens. It's more like "unlocking cheats", a reward that applies to the game itself rather than the file you got it from (compare it to unlocking TT in Diddy Kong Racing). But in SA, it clearly makes a playthrough seem more complete and even shows off a part of the game that many people might have missed entirely.

Lot's of text from someone who doesn't run the game, I know, I'm just really interested in Stafox speedruns ^^

Pennsylvania, USA

I really enjoyed that well thought-out and typed definition. As it stands the Tokens being delivered was the main issue as to why we couldn't settle on a community agreed definition. As for the Fuel Cell portion, I myself believe it would make sense to collect for a 100% speedrun, but it's just an item you can easily buy as well.

So, I guess, since you got the best definition Andyperfect , list the requirement in a nice and ordered format with what you believe should be included, that way we got an easy to find and view definition with requirements to go by. Make it as though it will be the actual rules (because honestly, they probably will since they make most sense but I gotta put it to a talk w/ community)

Switzerland

I'm AndyPANTHER, but thanks anyway ^^

100% is defined as:

  • All Spell Stones and Krazoa Spirits
  • All Staff Upgrades (including SharpClaw Disguise)
  • All health and magic upgrades
  • Biggest Scarab Bag
  • Firefly Lantern, Bafomdad Bag, Zoom Goggles, Tricky's Ball
  • All maps
  • All 75 Fuel Cells on the overworld
  • Collect and deliver every Token

One more thing I forgot last time was permanent C-stick items like the CloudRunner Flute. Those have the problem that even though they stay in your inventory, they don't stay usable. Stuff like the goggles and even the ball will always have an effect. I don't really mind if you include them, but I can already see how people would immediately want to get them off the list, as soon as there is a way to skip them.

zewing likes this
Pennsylvania, USA

I need to get Earthbound off my mind lol, but thank you, I do like the fuel cell definition, though I understand it had the effect that "you could just buy it," but I agree being unique is at least worthwhile since it kinda si required for story to continue.

As for the c stick items, I honestly don't think story based items should be required. 100% doesn't necessarily mean "complete all objectives as intended," so items required to do a certain objective shouldn't be collected if could be skipped if they're one time use items

For example: Golden root is required to get first scarab bag + place ice block to proceed in game. Golden root doesn't have any real purpose in the game as far as a 100% collection run should. Therefore, it's not required.

Does anyone else have any problems with AndyPanther's definition? Any clarification needed?

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