If I'm understanding correctly the requested option is "hide emulator runs better than non-emulator runs unless a box is unchecked by the user" If the majority of the pokemon community wants to push for this, maybe we can find a way to accommodate it, but right now it just seems like a really niche request. There's some balance between having 5000 options for leaderboards and still having a flexible interface. Maybe generalizing the option to handle more situations could make it potentially more useful.

I think functionality for supporting PBs that aren't on the boards is desirable eventually.

Regarding separate leaderboards, I've often suggested multiple arbitrarily named "full game leaderboards" and "individual level leaderboards" units. They don't exist yet, but I think that's the best direction to go in if a community wanted to do something like that.

In my mind there should be: Games

• Sub-games -- Arbitrary amount of "full game leaderboards" and "individual level leaderboards" units

We can't have people exchanging pirated game downloads on the forums. It potentially endangers the entire site to allow that to happen on a regular basis.

Gyoo and I have been passing this back and forth a bit due to IRL stuff.

PackSciences: Feel free to accept runs, you don't need permission. My recommendation would be decent scrutiny of any ridiculously good times and just brief glances at non-notable times. If there's a flawed non-notable time that gets approved, it can be removed later on. Don't stress it too much. :) Remz: Added you to Double Dragon to have more people available. Dragon Warrior IV feel free to contact one of the current mods and ask. Catalyst: I reattached the games to the series primarily in the interest of having more active people available. If there's any conflict we can detach them again.

If anything was not addressed let me know. I think everything else was addressed by others.

I think moderator logs would help a lot of issues as well. I was thinking they should be limited to game moderators and site staff, personally, but I'd be open to discussion on that. Life would be great if everything could be done ASAP.

Lightnat0r has been starting coding an update allowing following games, forums etc. I'm not sure what the exact timeline looks like or which features are being prioritized at the moment.

I think you guys should be using either US - PC or a variable to denote which PC version. Given lack of a traditional US version, the flag would make the most sense to me. It should be somehow evident in the display that it's not equivalent to the native version, as I think this is what much of the disagreement revolved around in the first place.

Responding to frogyfro's post

1: I asked an information seeking question 15 days ago and got a response 5 days ago. 2: I do not refresh the X7 board daily waiting for responses. 3: I consulted with staff before making this change.

I'm sure you understand.

Per Izraill's suggestion, I'm putting PeterAfro as mod. I don't know much about him personally, but the expectation will be for him to act neutrally as far as the maintenance of the board is concerned. If moderators are added and are creating board drama due to attitude issues, we'll find new moderators.

Making all games in a series fit the exact same standard isn't currently a great solution for this site. This decision is primarily "game oriented"

Instead of a "hack", I would call this an "unofficial translation."

The site has some expectation that boards do reasonable things with the data set.

• This translation goes from an obscure language to the most common language on this site.
• This translation is possibly more prevalent online than the original game.
• This translation has been around a long time.
• This translation is slower than the official version. (If it were faster, that's a discussion for another day in my opinion.)
• This game is not for a console with a specific amount of released games.
• The community of the game using this site wants to track this translation.

I think that is reasonable. As long as the modularity of the data allows looking at data sets with and without this criteria, it's basically just another way to look at the board.

This decision encompasses all of that criteria. It does not imply anything outside of that criteria.

Per discussion with series mods, full mods, and admins I dissolved series moderators into the games where applicable (much like Mario and Zelda are currently). I reached out to all the series mods via Twitch message. (If you didn't see the message, I apologize, but feel free to let Twitch know that their spam box is an awful "feature".)

From the site staff's opinion, the series basically is too big to fit under one umbrella. It makes much more sense on this site to allow each community for this game to operate independently.

Series moderators were generally dissolved into the games they run or games that were short staffed. (I don't know anything about srwatcher other than he doesn't have listed runs for any of the games, nothing personal. If people want to add him to various games, feel free.) My suggestion is that a few people should absolve themselves from dealing with a few of the games, as it causes more conflict than helpfulness.

If this forum board becomes an issue, I will appoint someone to moderate it until we can find a better solution.

My suggestion is to focus on consensus for the rules for the display instead of focusing purely on rules. Moderators shouldn't rule makers, they should be consensus gatherers. (Note: There is a site expectation that the boards maintain sensible data in a reasonable format, but none of the topics of discussion violated this criteria. If some other boards are doing something, it's probably okay to do.)

RE4 people should try to come to a consensus/majority instead of just making rules. Feel free to appoint a moderator to help with this, or feel free to remove yourself if you don't want that task. Guideline: Tracking more things is generally better than tracking less.

Site staff thinks this will work better if the games operate independently for this series, there is no series standard that has to be met.

• Kirkq

packsciences: If you want it, I'll give it to you. Let me know.

RNGRuns: Wind Waker HD has reasonably active mods from the Zelda community, feel free to contact them. Skyward Sword is kind of in an awkward spot I agree, but I would still prefer at the very least someone who runs it and is reasonably established in the community to manage it. To MLSTRM's question: There was talk of ways to share runs between the two sites, but a large scale agreement/initiative to do so hasn't happened thus far, unfortunately. Pac has scraper scripts he can use if the community wants him to.

I think there's need for looser hierarchy relationships, such as multiple series per game, but the moderation inheritance is dependent on the series structure right now, so there's a decent bit that needs restructured to handle it well. I don't really like the idea of two series being able to edit it (creates ambiguous control), I'd rather the applicable people just be added to the game.

I moved LEGO HP to Lego because the game moderator requested here and the series moderator of LEGO also has a run.

If the mods have toggled "runs require a video" in their options, I think that's when that behavior occurs.

LuizMiguel I think your attitude towards this causes far more problems than it solves honestly. You're reasonably entitled to not want to interact with these people, but your aggressive and overly confrontational way of dealing with disagreements is pretty much not productive and pretty much equally "shitter" behavior in my opinion.

The site could certainly use more layout options to better discern between categories while still maintaining modularity, but I don't see anything fundamentally incorrect with the data on the X4 and X6 pages. You can click to the data you want to click to with the filters, and it's up to the user what information they value.

Anyway my previous question about the time difference still stands, I would like to know. The discussion topic is purely the merits of tracking times for a relatively common hack in a relatively common language.

Responding to hoboX's points:

I agree that save corruption contained within the scope of the run is far less egregious than using a prepared file. Also note that if this was possible within the context of normal gameplay, it would certainly be allowed and tracked as such. Fundamentally and conceptually I feel that save corruption is almost hardware abuse. The limitations of an external hardware interface are being abused by power cycling during an operation where it is assumed the user is not insane enough to interrupt with the kill switch. Pretty much every TAS and to my knowledge most or all console runs that utilize save corruption label it as such.

I have no problem with tracking and performing save corruption runs. The question is should save corruption runs become the de facto standard any%, which can only really be determined by all of us collectively. It's not a question of banning it, it's simply a question of how to track it.

After examining the route more, I'm starting to think that an early fire route that skips water entirely may be the fastest way to beat the game on US with a couple sets of 150 spirit lights (~16 fire solvaring, 24 earth 19 fire zelse) The only real time loss in that route is inability to spirit dupe.

Skipping Cull Hazard saves about 9 minutes. We can only skip Cull Hazard with either save corruption for healing items or POSSIBLY a very large amount of early game spirit cramming (Haven't done the math yet.)

It's not just a bunch of healing items, it is also the ability to ignore water spirits entirely and also skip Cull Hazard and part of Blue Cave (maybe more) with few ramifications. It does not break the game entirely, but it does radically change the early game route.

Can someone for the sake of argument do a comparison of some or all relevant cutscenes and see how it affects time?

If it's an equal or slower game as seems to be speculated by the previous post I don't really see any major argument against it other than purely on the basis of "it's a hack" If it actually is faster, the argument would need framed in that context. I'd rather know which of those two discussions we are actually having before changing anything.

No more need to spam everyone's tweets, just use this thread.

Resources: Combat FAQ: http://www.gamefaqs.com/n64/198386-quest-64/faqs/66316 Too hard Spirit Dupe route (assumes 4): http://pastebin.com/hL7Z6U1E Old US version route: http://pastebin.com/MFhCKP4Z Stats notes: http://pastebin.com/cYADBhXS

• Compression is fire level 19 to enable out of bounds.

• Exit is water level 19 to enable spirit duping

• If you are not doing save corruption, you need at least 7 water for healing to progress without dying.

• At least 8-10 water is preferable because of the massive HP gain on heals.

• Vampire's touch is fire level 32. Vampire's Touch heals (club damage + 7) / 4 rounded down.

• A spirit light route could MAYBE do 50 Earth 19 Fire. I'm not sure what the side effects are. Getting 24 19 by Zelse would be tricky if 2 Cull Hazard spirits were skipped with no duping.

Fire Ball LV3 is fire level 16

Solvaring Options: 15 Water 12 Wind (breadless) 16 Fire

Zelse Options: 24 Earth ?? Fire ?? Water + Spirit lights

Nepty Options: 36 Earth ?? Fire + Spirit Lights

Shilf Options: 36 Earth ??

Guilty:

• You need 32+ Defense to survive two close hits, which is 834 hits taken, which is about 360 more hits than i took in my run.
• 360 hits takes about 350 seconds or almost 6 minutes on blood jells. Skelebats might be slightly less.

Beigis: ??

Mammon:

• Avalanche speeds this up a ton.

Out of Bounds:

• I only tested a few things.
• I got OoB off the magma fish looking enemy in Boil Hole.
• Going OoB in Boil Hole saves literally like 12 minutes and skips Fargo.
• I could not manage to get OoB off any of the enemies in Baragoon Tunnel.

More early Spirits:

• It may be possible to cram duping/collecting spirits between Solvaring and Zelse to get 24-19-19 by Zelse for an OoB in Cull Hazard?
• List: Larapool Inn early, All Glencoe, possibly 1 after Solvaring with a modified exp route, All West Carmagh, All Windward Forest, others?

Other:

• I'll probably start by trimming down the Spirit Dupe route to 3 per dupe and then using that as a baseline for the OoB routing.
• Since Water and Fire are equivalent, an easy mode route for now would be 25 water, 50 earth, 19 fire, then OoB in boil hole.

Questions:

• How many spirit lights does save corruption give you?
• If you corrupt over the Earth Orb, does it mess up the boat to Limelin?
• Which areas can we OoB in reliably? Cull Hazard and Blue Cave would save a lot of time.
• Are there any areas OoB on the same map like the Fairy Fountains in Zelda Majora's Mask?

[quote=Izraill]@kirkq and cyberdemon531 I would usually not want to get into this, but I think it’s necessary to explain Cyber’s points and the issue with the X7 leaderboard. X5 is, technically, fine, since the current mod does run that game and has very good times in it. X7, however, is a different case. As explained in this thread by PeterAfro ( http://www.speedrun.com/mmx7/thread/sk6o2 ) he banned something the community explicitly allowed, despite allegedly being told that in Twitter multiple times.

A summarized version of what happened (as seen from my perspective –if anyone sees wrong information and can correct it please do–) would be: everyone had been running in the PC version, which is Korean, but they had been using a version that had an English patch. The moderator we’ve been talking about went and did a "joke" (or so he claims) about timing it to see if English patch affected timing and banning it from the other leaderboards if it did so. Someone posted it on Twitter and people got angry. He said something along the lines of "it was a joke but now I’ll actually do it." He went and did it even though the X7 community had all agreed practically unanimously that running in the patch was perfectly fine. He then banned all the runs of that game done in the patch and proceeded to create the X7 leaderboard in this site before the actual runners got the chance, having the advantage of being a series mod, effectively enforcing his decision.

One could go and gather opinions from all the people who have actually run that game and most –if not all– would agree that the rule applied was not agreed upon and that the mod needs to be changed. Personally, I think PeterAfro should be the one moderating the leaderboard of Mega Man X7, being an active runner who is in contact with the community. I would also like to suggest that all further discussion about this specific game was directed to the thread I linked previously, with special focus in a question presented in the opening post: [/quote]

Pretty much all the information I have available is here. If there were discussions that went on aside from that, I can't really see them. https://twitter.com/peterafro/status/576166254173503489/photo/1

This leads me to believe that pretty much no one involved has taken any time to host any formal discussion. If there was formal discussion, could someone link me to it?

This page discusses some of the organizational changes that the MMRTA community made regarding X series games, but I didn't see any posts regarding X7 when skimming. http://jokaah.com/mmrta/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=160&start=25

I have a few questions for now, I might have more later.

1: How long has this English patch been around? 2: The patch has something to do with grabbing the data from the Playstation version, right? Could someone elaborate on the details of that? 3: What is the most common reason people are using the English patch? 4: How many runners have used the English patch? 5: How many runners have used the Korean original? 6: Is the English patch faster than the Korean PC version? 7: If so, how much faster is the English patch? 8: MMRTA used to track the PC English version, correct? 9: How long were they tracking the English PC version? When did they start and end roughly?

I had hoped to better understand this by spending some time reading, but I came up with more questions than answers.

toucansham: I went ahead and added you as super mod for the series. Might as well do it now since the other guy has been inactive for a month.

rosael: I assume you guys just locked yourselves out? You can add relevant people to each game to prevent that in the future.

EDIT: I sent Twitch PMs to all RE series mods to try to get a better perspective. I'm trying to get some general consensus before changing anything.

Eventually we want to provide arbitrarily configured timers that count up or down and have precedence (primary, secondary, etc). I think this could be utilized to show a score count or a percentage count (numbers). If you wanted to sort by words with varying precedence it would require a lot of additional functionality implementation.

HHNNBBHHN: Okay, inactive moderator and no runs, added.

Cursedgamer11: Yeah he pretty much logged in one time and never added a run, I'm fine with removing him and adding you.

Auddy07: Thanks, I responded a bit earlier, more this weekend.

Izraill: Thanks for the post, I'll look into it this weekend when I have more time.

Addressing these large community dissents takes a lot of time to understand all the factors, time which I do not really have for a few days due to work stuff. I'll try to get to both of these on Sunday.