Amnesia: The Dark Descent Forum  /  All Items category?
  loohhooloohhoo
(edited: )

Hey everyone.

A while back I saw Skyreon's "100%" run. I don't agree with that run's definition of 100% - you can load your last save at the Orb Chamber to verify that you have all the items after you have beaten the game. Other game categories with 100% items that don't show item completion at the end are typically verified in a similar way, or the moderator watches the entire run. So the idea that you have no way to track your progress didn't seem like a good reason to not get every item and shouldn't be called 100%, but this is my opinion.

I theorized and did a run of what I called an "All Items" speedrun instead. I have no idea if this has been done already somewhere. It is glitchless by nature. You collect literally everything and when the credits are done, verify item contents by reloading the Orb Chamber save. The collection requirements are:

151 tinderboxes
44 notes and diaries
37 oil potions
16 laudanum potions
7 oil barrels
5 memory capsules
all progression items, even if not used
touching all torture devices
saving agrippa

No other restrictions.

I timed my run RTA (e.g. with loads and without a load extender or w/e) and I paused my timer a few times to double check my item counts, which I wouldn't do in a real run. And I flubbed my routing at the end lmao. So this is just a demonstration run more or less:

My haphazardly written "route" can be found here (which I think I will update some more as I get better): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LwTv4SnE38EntnrEkwIvYXQ1jCkjkdDfaOY_t6y7oys/edit#

I'm also kind of an Amnesia glitch noob, so I didn't use any exploits. I am interested in any that could be applied though!

SkyreonSkyreon likes this. 
  SkyreonSkyreon
(edited: )

Hi, loohhoo!

I'm glad to hear you've taken an interest in 100%.
I'm not sure if you've read the 100% discussions in the Discord server or not, but there's a lot more information there than on SRC. You're welcome to join! Though I'll assume you read my forum post here on SRC, so I won't be going over any of the points I've already covered in that thread.

Originally posted by loohhooSo the idea that you have no way to track your progress didn't seem like a good reason to not get every item and shouldn't be called 100%, but this is my opinion.

There are four issues with an 'All Items' run, or adding items such as tinderboxes and oil canisters into a 100% definition:

1. In order to verify the run by the means you proposed, the runner mustn't use any throughout the entire run, otherwise it invalidates the run. This unfortunately makes the run overall slower as you take fall damage on purpose to save time in certain maps.

2. There are items that are unobtainable, like a tinderbox in Orb Chamber. Nos and Tera go over how to obtain the last two oil canisters in Orb Chamber, and it's so difficult to pull off that it's classified as a segmented-only strat. This would mean that you'd have an inconsistent run-ending trick at the very end, costing nearly 2 minutes each failed attempt. (More info in the server by searching for messages with "100%" in them.)

3. A run which requires all items would conflict with the Agrippa ending-requirement, since it plays a different outro scene, thus rendering the last tinderboxes and oil canisters unobtainable (apart from the already-unobtainable tinderbox).

4. The end timing point has to be altered to something like the first frame of credits roll, since you would finish at 99% completion rate after pushing the last pylon.

It's a shame you're unable to open the inventory after putting Agrippa's head through the portal, considering it works if you do the revenge ending... Loading up the Orb Chamber save after credits sounds like the best way to verify the items indeed.

Hopefully I managed to explain the thought process of how Ivy and I landed on the "all permanent items" definition. To me, 'All Items' in a game like this is not much different from grabbing all Rare Candy, X Speed, Full Restore etc. from various pokéballs around the world of a PKMN game, hehe.

I invite you to take a look at something Cakeri and I brewed up earlier this year; the All Notes run. It doesn't wrestle with the annoyance of defining a 100%/All Items category when Frictional placed certain items in obscure locations, hehe. You can view the google doc here.

I hope to see you in #the-dark-descent!

P.S. We do watch all runs from start to finish 😉

 
  loohhooloohhoo

I did read your other forum post and I didn't agree with a lot of what you said, sadly. Namely, just because you're not awarded with anything for getting certain types of items didn't seem like a good reason to not get them in a 100% definition. The all achievements perspective is logical. But losing track in-game how many items you have by the end of the run is also a non-issue.

Let me address your counter points from here:

1. If runs are watched from start to finish, then moderators can take note of which tinderboxes or whatever other items are used, so verifying the run by reloading the last save doesn't have to be the only way to do so, it's just easier. Beside the fact that in my demonstration run, I didn't even use a single tinderbox or oil potion or laudanum. Whether or not doing so slows down a run doesn't feel like good reason to not do a category.

2. I was not aware of these items as I went based off of a 100% guide and 151 tinderboxes are all that are required for the achievement (which triggered on my first successful attempt, lol) and only 37 oil potions obtainable. Is that tinderbox not just in the Nave Redux (which I collect)? And do you have better examples of where the other two oil potions are because I couldn't quite tell what I was looking at.

3. If those items are considered segmented / TAS only, then it would make sense to exclude them, considering at least the tinderbox doesn't go towards any achievement. But it could be worth looking into easier ways to getting them. I'm all for doing the revenge ending if it means a true 100% - saving agrippa is just fun 😛 But I also think it would be fine to exclude them for the aforementioned reason.

4. Timing start/finish is whatever for me, I just stopped the timer when I clicked on the portal for agrippa's head. In retrospect the credits is more logical because you do still move after for a moment.

Again, I'm a huge proponent for this category because it feels much more complete to me, and being unable to not grab 3? items feels better than just not getting a ton of them and labeling that 100%.

Personally, I don't think it would hurt to potentially label this Max% (something that exists on the Metroid Prime 2 boards, for Max% No Dark Beam for example). Regardless of if something like this ever gets added to the boards, I'm going to keep doing runs and optimizing where I can, and I invite y'all to do so also 😃

 
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