K5E is Possible
San Francisco, CA, USA

Edit: Found a simple solution using FireBlast. See Post #6. Edit: Found a semi-reliable RTA setup. See my final post.

When doing the Ice Mountain bike glitch, we can Fuel Cell dismount and ride the bike out of bounds. In other words, we can manipulate the X/Y/Z coordinates.

Then, once we zoom, the bike is unloaded, but we retain a stale reference to the bike. New allocations can overwrite the bike memory, allowing us to change the stale reference coordinates.

When void traveling to K5, if we manipulate the real bike coordinates and stale bike coordinates to intersect the ESW trigger, then we can activate the ESW and collect K5E.

We will need to figure out how to manipulate 3 valid float values. There are many techniques to manipulate these. We just need something reliable.

In v1.0, the size of the ESW trigger is roughly: X: 803428F8 offsets 908, 18 => between 15933.0f and 16069.0f Y: 803428F8 offsets 908, 1C => between -26.0f and 110.0f Z: 803428F8 offsets 908, 20 => roughly -13186.0f (TODO)

Here is my Dolphin Memory Engine file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eQZFBNSMYiD0GszC-tmSjb4WFnlWGvjE/view?usp=sharing

We can set these values in the following ways:

  • We can set 2 out of 3 of these values (X and Z) using the bike. Just ride to the correct coordinates, then swim OOB as Fox to lock the values in place.
  • Sometimes, these values can change when unloading/reloading the IM map
  • Sometimes, these values can change when loading/reloading the K5 map
  • Sometimes, these values can change when hitting triggers in the K5 map, or facing the camera certain ways.
  • Sometimes, these values can change from pausing
  • Sometimes, these values can change on the death menu

In this video, I only used hacks to change the X coordinate to intersect the ESW plane, we need to find a way to do this with luck or manipulations.

In this video, I got 2 out of 3 coordinates set by flying the bike before Zooming as Fox:

Edited by the author 1 year ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

More related info

I think we can sometimes get the pause menu to start writing to the mount coordinates:

Edited by the author 2 years ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

It seems that this game uses some math to determine if a trigger should be hit. This makes it easier for us, as we do not need to manipulate exact coordinates.

Frame 1: Mount coordinates (x1, y1, z1) Frame 2: Mount coordinates (x2, y2, z2)


Then check if the line from Frame 1 to Frame 2 intersects the ESW trigger. This means instead of exact coordinates, we just need the line from Frame 1 to Frame 2 to intersect the ESW plane.

I think this might work:

  • Manipulate specific (x, y, z) coordinates using bike. This is pretty easy (but Y will be a large negative number)
  • Load K5, and get (0, 0, 0) to overwrite X/Y/Z -- if we pick the correct initial coordinates, a line will pass through the ESW plane, allowing us to hit the trigger.
Edited by the author 2 years ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

Edit: This idea is bad and doesn't work very well.

We need to find initial bike coords that will pass through the ESW plane when overwritten with (0, 0, 0)

Step 1) Manipulate the bike coordinates to a value on one side of the plane (ie 16000, -8000, -13200 -- we will need to do a bunch of math to find out the ideal coords) Step 2) Swim near the ESW trigger, and get an allocation that sets new values to (0, 0, 0)

If the line between the first coords and 2nd coords intersect ESW plane, then the trigger gets hit!


One idea:

  1. TAS a route all the way to K5E. At first, we get the bike OOB, but do not worry about manipulating coordinates yet.
  2. Do RNG manipulation until we get reasonable stale mount coordinates. For example, (0, 50000, 0) is good.
  3. Then all we have to do is load an earlier save state, navigate the bike into a position that intersects with ESW plane, and then follow that exact route again. In this example, we would then just navigate our bike to (32001.5234, -50000, -26372.1602)
  4. Follow the exact same route as before. We should get the same stale mount coordinates.
  5. The bike should "warp" to the new stale coordinates, intersecting the ESW trigger.
Edited by the author 2 years ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

A new idea -- I think this is our best option. I've tested it with hacks, and it works. The odds are reasonable enough that a TAS should be able to get this.

  1. Move the bike to coords (2814.6816, 0, 0) and zoom to unload bike. It is okay to be off by a little bit.
  2. Navigate to K5 with Void Traveling, using RNG manipulation to avoid overwriting bike coordinates
  3. Load the final K5 room. As the room loads, we need to get coordinates (X, Y, -X) to overwrite the bike coords where:
    • X is larger than 16000.7617
    • Y is 0 or any small decimal number

This is why this works: https://i.imgur.com/y5PluzS.png

I don't know what the odds are of getting this, but on a byte level it looks reasonable, because we mostly need zeros. For example 4C 00 00 00 | 00 00 00 00 | CC 00 00 00 00 works.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

Got it! It is possible to get FireBlast to allocate to the mount coords

This means with heap RNG manipulation, we can just fire a FireBlast shot into the ESW trigger

I used hacks once in this route, but it should still be possible. I will verify with absolutely no hacks and post a DTM later.

This should result in roughly 2.5 to 3 hours saved on TAS.

Might even be possible RTA, but the odds are not favorable (my guess is 1 in 200, but can't say for sure until we measure it)

Edited by the author 2 years ago
LobsterZelda, Dark-X-rane and 2 others like this
San Francisco, CA, USA

Here is a LOTAD of the route, which skips almost everything, even Tricky. This builds from of the start of LobsterZelda's TAS:

The TAS is until K5E. Afterwards I spliced the rest of the run up to the start of Andross. The entire TAS run should be under 1h.

Route notes: 22:28 - End of LobsterZelda's segment, start of LOTAD 28:20 - Barrel Clip 28:45 - Bike State Glitch 30:00 - Hotkey FireBlast, ride glitched bike, Fuel Cell dismount 30:15 - RNG Manipulation #1 - My goal is to keep the bike memory unaffected by the zoom. I think this helps increase the chances of a FireBlast overwriting our mount coords later. 30:30 - Zoom clip 31:15 - Intentional damage. Trying to lower Fox's HP to 2 for K5E. 31:30 - Void Traveling (about 6 minutes of swimming, not optimized fully) 37:45 - K5 Shrine loaded + RNG manipulation #2 38:40 - Stale Mount Trigger with FireBlast <End of TAS, start of Splice> 41:00 - Walled City Void Walking 41:40 - Sun Stone ESW trigger 41:45 - !! Hack used to change Y coordinate because I was too lazy to do this optimally. This normally requires a very precise run angle / zoom to hit the trigger and escape fast enough to lock Fox's Y position at an acceptable height. 42:20 - Moon Temple death trigger 42:25 - Ice Mountain Warp. This works because we only hit ESW triggers, not save triggers. The rest of the run is normal from here. 46:45 - Death warp. This is now possible since we never increase our max HP.

TAS DTM file (up to K5) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1We7xprwUwm0f9kHWJwXaEvjJypcnk4pz/view?usp=sharing

Here is the TAS Route PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GbtR0_mxB-q0ew97ld2UkrbllxXVYR0R/view?usp=sharing

Edited by the author 2 years ago
San Francisco, CA, USA

Here is how to perform the Void Walking section in WC.

By moving the camera OOB, it lets you use the left trigger again for some reason.

This was my 3rd attempt (two soft-failures), but I think I got lucky. It's honestly a very hard trick to do.

Types of failures: Hard failure = console reset Soft failure = end up back at K5 instead of SunStone temple, and you can retry the trick. Loses a couple minutes.

If you mess up the trick and fall too low = hard failure If you zoom too early after the rolls (Fox will fall very far down in this case) = hard failure If you exit too slowly (end up too low) = hard failure If you exit too quickly (missing the ESW trigger) = soft failure If you botch the initial height setup = soft failure If you are even slightly off when executing the trick, could end up being either hard/soft failure.

In my experience, if you walk near the river and can see water near the camera, then you are too high, and are likely to miss the ESW trigger. If you can see the terrain (at 0:35) then you have a good height.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

Here is the TAS playback of K5E with heap viewer enabled:

Glowing red line in the 2nd row = Bike memory is unfilled Glowing green line in the 2nd row = Bike bike memory is filled by another object

I could not spot any meaningful patterns. By the time TAS gets here, the memory is very fragmented.

At 0:52, we walk into the room and get lucky, freeing the bike memory. Then we get lucky again, and a Fireblast overwrites the bike memory. Finding setups that do not involve luck/savestates seems really hard.

Edit: I have since learned that my heap viewer had bugs and was showing some FREE memory as ALLOCATED. So this video is useless.

Edited by the author 1 year ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

I want to try and find an RTA K5E setup.


  1. Finding a semi-consistent way to leave IM with the same heap memory every time
  2. Finding a semi-consistent setup to overwrite mount coordinates with FireBlast once we reach K5

I think #1 is possible:

I am not 100% sure yet, but this shows that we can consistently overwrite the bike coordinates with 15/40/15, which is promising.

Steps in video:

  • Console reset after bike flag glitch
  • Enter game
  • Hold L to minimize camera movement
  • Hotkey fireblast for later
  • Ride bike into Fuel Cell from behind
  • Memorize inputs to get the bike to the gate (wait for ~1s, 4 quick taps left, wait, 1-2 quick taps left)
  • Spam zoom and clip through gate

Some possible failure cases:

  • Messing up the inputs, so the bike does not get to the gate
  • Sometimes the bike goes through the gate entirely, messing up the RNG manip
  • Camera is RNG, so you may need to try multiple times for a good camera

Loses 45s per failed attempt

Edited by the author 1 year ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

It is possible to hit the ESW plane (or in this case, the death plane) without using FireBlast.

Just need lucky memory allocations that form a line intersecting ESW plane.

I was able to hit ESW plane once without FireBlast, but do not have it on video

San Francisco, CA, USA

Zoom clip works on terrain too. Not sure if this will be used in the route (also works on the fence).

Just another option for finding an RTA route.

josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

I think I found a setup that is semi-reliable. RTA can now save ~2.5-3 hours.

We will need to do:

  • Cannon clip
  • Bike flag glitch
  • Setup shown in video
  • WC void walking after collecting K5

All of these tricks are very hard.

Edited by the author 1 year ago
San Francisco, CA, USA

New potential WC void walking strat -- it turns out there is an invisible ledge grab trigger out of bounds near this bomb spore plant.

This means we can gain height here. I'll need to see if this opens up new strats.

Trigger Y position is -1081, Fox can hit it with a Y position around -1061, not sure how much margin of error.

Edited by the author 1 year ago
josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

The bounty has been solved for finding an RTA Bike Flag Glitch setup https://speedrunbounties.gg/bounty/620863a3ff4955001fd17592#submissions

Here is another setup that "works":

We need to find a way to improve/normalize Fox's starting position, but otherwise these setups are the best we have right now, and still work reasonably well.

josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

Here is a method to get a good camera every time for K5E:

I hold A the entire time, and press left for just a short period (I use the music to help time it)

Then I tap L until I get a good camera, and move the camera out of bounds in fireblast stance slightly to fix the camera in place

josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

Better RTA setup:

Walled City Void Walking Height Map: https://i.imgur.com/fyavQGI.png

If you spam A and staff swing 3 times when loading into the WC void walk section, you can figure out Fox's Y position using these visual cues:


San Francisco, CA, USA

Faster paced RTA setup that seems even more consistent:

So far this route is 3 for 3 with my attempts

josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

It is possible to bypass camera RNG by simply running into a wall and waiting. We can also clip through this wall.

Then when the camera settles down, zoom. Still some RNG, but at least the camera will never be upside down or inside Fox.

josejavier1158 likes this
San Francisco, CA, USA

I successfully pulled off K5E on console

RTA can definitely sub-hour now, once we improve the WC void walking setup

josejavier1158 likes this
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