I thought about when it's optimal to do the menu glitch on each boss and this is what I came up with:

Run n Gun - End Veggies - Whenever Convienent (If you missed it at the beginning you'll probably just reset anyways) Frogs - During the Slot Machine | Beginning Slime - Phase Transition Flower - First Attack of Last Phase / Machine Gun Seeds Beppi - As Late as Possible Bon Bon - Whenever Convienent Dragon - Whenever Convienent / After Phase Skip Bee - After Police Bee (Assuming 28-30 second fight) | Between Phase 2 and 3 (Assuming otherwise) Sally - Phase 3 | Beginning Werner - Phase 2 Brutus - Phase Transition Ghost Train - Final Phase Transition / Skeleton (If you end up in the scenario where you have to take damage to 1 cycle) King Dice - Ending

Fights Menu'd Early in a "Speedrun" = 06/19

Worst case scenario, you still do 13 Fights without the menu up for a majority of the fight, so I don't think this would hurt the run "aesthetically" much. If there's a good point to do it earlier for races that I missed feel free to point it out, keep in mind that some earlier points can cause a significant time loss from having to focus on dodging more. (Werner Werman's Phase 1 and Brutus' OctoGuns make doing these earlier questionable, even in a race.)

Do I have this about right?

Just FYI, the timing is super forgiving. And if you have Parry Sugar, it's almost 100% consistent. My 100% routing changed because of this. I buy Smoke Bomb first, go do the two Run and Guns, then buy Roundabout/Lobber/Parry Sugar. I think the extra shop is worth the consistency in getting those Menu Glitches. Thanks for the video Glackum! :D

The video looks good, Glackum! It’s not possible to do on flying levels, but it’s possible on all other boss fights and run n guns.

I'm relatively new to speedrunning and not really active on these boards, but I guess I don't see why there's any problem with categorizing separately considering the number of runs that have been completed without it. A lot of games discover new glitches/issues and end up adding categorizations/filters/etc to the leaderboards to accomodate this. For example, Super Metroid has the overall leaderboard, but allows for filtering based on boss order so you can see how people do with different routes. Why this can't just be added as a filter on the main board, with having it unfiltered be the default, I don't know.

I personally think this glitch would make my stream less watchable, so I'm personally not going to use it, and I think there are quite a few others who have similar concerns. If the community wants it the other way, and the results currently are leaning that way, I guess I'll just have to watch myself tumble down the leaderboards, and that's fine. It certainly will make me a LOT less likely to continue running this, however, if everything is lumped in together.

New runner for this game but thought I'd give my input too. I don't buy the whole "get good" argument. That is unrelated to the topic of whether or not the menu glitch should be in a separate category. Take Pokemon Red/Blue for example. The save corruption makes such a massive difference that it is in a different category. I'm not part of that community but I'm willing to bet that people didn't say "get good" if they wanted it to be in the same category.

On the other hand, I don't buy the "less fun to watch" argument either. That is a reason for people to not do the glitch, but NOT a reason for it to be moved to a different category. There are plenty of games that are much less fun to watch than Cuphead. This game is friendly to new watchers for the most part. Also the glitch can be executed at any point in the boss fights.

Really the only thing we should be considering is whether the time save is enough to warrant being a different category. It saves up to 3 minutes, which would be about 12% of the world record time for All Bosses. Whether that is enough to warrant separate categories is not up to me.

Alright, i know i should at least try to use new glitch to say something about it, so i tried it, and thats what i think about it. First of all - pause glitch punish speedruners which played this game for long time, like TMR, me and others, beacuse each at least good speedruner can easily beat our times with new glitch, even through how much we played this game and how much love we give it to it. Second - it's hard to ,,add" it to you runs, i played this game for 160 hours already, and like 140 speedrun it, i try to learn it for hours, i changed controls for it cus i play on xbox controller so i cannot use A/B button while using this glitch, and still cannot do it consistently. It's not like robot heart attack glitch which you just need to learn. It's change the way you play this game, which is bullshit in my opinion to add it to all categories. I can understand some people like this glitch and want to use it, that's why it's deserve new category, so those people can have fun with this glitch and learn it, and old-schoolers stick to the old way to play it, if we add it to all categories, new strat will beat old times, and probably most of speedruners will stop play it, i know i cannot do this 2-flame perfect glitch in each boss-fight ( maybe cus i'm suck ) to beat new times and i'm gonna give up this game after 2 month of playing it... well not rly, i'm still gonna play glitchless ones. My conclusion - by creating new categories for this glitch, no one gonna suffer from it, i can say more - most of people which like this glitch can play with it in new categories, and people which doesn't want to use/can't use this glitch can play old categories, also old times won't suffer from it.

Just give us a category where we can press A to jump pls. In all seriousness, I 100% agree with Luigi. I've spent almost 200 hours speedrunning this game and in all of them I had fun. Over the last month, I made extremely huge progress (thank you Simple category) and got times that are close to the top. There was always a carrot on the stick, that kept me moving forward and compete against some extremely good runners. But i gotta say, I HATE this glitch! Sure, It's easy to execute on IL, but on a complete run, It's extremely obnoxious (don't worry Luigi, if you say you suck, I suck twice as much). It is ruining the fun for me and the fact that I saw a bunch of people in the community saying to just get good, not gonna lie, made me sad.

Don't worry! I haven't forgotten about this! Unfortunately, the issue with the patch is more major right now and is our top priority. We'll certainly keep this in mind as we develop a solution to that and come back to this afterwards if need be!

Yeah I agree with Luigi 100%. I personally want to run this game mostly the way it was intended but with some exploits/glitches to speed it up and make it a fun competition. Some people want to run games completely broken to get the time as low as possible. Some people want to optimize a completely glitchless route. Whether or not it's a live run or a TAS, generally there are those three types of speedrunners. More categories = more inclusion. Making a separate category is going to encourage people like me to pick up the game again. As of right now the annoying controls for menu glitch completely destroy any fun I used to have running.