Any% no warp speedrun question
3 years ago

I have a question, is starting with the 15 live potions allowed?. Well it's not actually a cheat code itself and the rules doesn't forbide it.

European Union

No, you have to start from a fresh file; what you're describing is an NG+ situation (starting with 15 HP collected in a previous savefile) which is not what an Any% speedrun is about.

United States

To further clarify, you must start a run with the "Game Start" option on the Main Menu. This will give you the default Level One pre-loaded password with 0 time elapsed and 3 bottles hit meter at bottom.

You cannot input a new password with different parameters.

I have bumped this old discussion, because I want to address the RULES.

See below --

Edited by the author 6 months ago
United States

I would like to have a discussion with the MODs about using more precise language in the RTA rules section, specifically regarding timing.

All of my submitted runs have been timed from the First Frame the Prince is visible on-screen, because the game has started, and the Prince is in motion. I think it is vague to say time begins "when you gain control."

The Most Recent #1 record for Any% No Exit Glitches, 35:10, shows a good example. The guy programs his timer to begin 1.2 seconds after First Frame. So he is not timing his run until the Prince is Standing Straight Up, 73-74 frames after the Level begins.

I think we need to say exactly in the Rules when the timing will begin, and when exactly it will end.

For example:

  1. Timing begins on the First Frame the Prince is Visible Onscreen. -OR-

  2. Timing begins on the First Frame the Prince is Standing Upright (1.214 seconds later)

My proposal for ending time language:

Timing Ends on the First Frame of the Prince's final frozen position at the Finish Line on Level 20, OR the First Frame when the Prince is no longer visible, behind the curtain.

I have been ending time when I pull up the Select Menu after the Prince crosses the finish line. But theoretically, we could say the run is over a few frames before that, when the Prince stops moving.

I think we should discuss these options, so everyone knows exactly how we time runs, and how MODs might re-time runs if it's very close to a 1 second barrier.

Edited by the author 6 months ago
LichtWirbelwind likes this
European Union

Thank you for bringing this up! Following your suggestions I just re-worded the timing rules as follows: "Timing begins on the first frame the Prince is standing upright after selecting "Game start" on the menu. Timing ends on the first frame of the Prince's final frozen position at the finish line on level 20.". In addition I have adjusted the times of the runs on the board (excluding obsolete runs) to match the new timing rule.

Edited by the author 5 months ago
United States

Personally, I would have preferred to set the timing to begin on the first frame of the first level.

If we consider consistency across the Series, we can take note of the original 1989 section. There are several versions of this game (including the NES and Mega Drive) which do not allow for In-Game-Timer, and instead direct time to begin "On the First Frame of the First Active Screen." In some of these versions, the Prince also falls down before "gaining control."

For the sake of consistency with other versions of this game, I think it would be best to begin timing on the first frame of the first active screen, before the Prince falls. You may have noticed that there has already been some inconsistency on the leader board, with some players starting time when the Prince Touches the Floor, and others when he Stands Upright. So inevitably, there would need to be some adjustments.

Hopefully, you would not be too upset with having to adjust the times again, if we agree on the other option.

Edited by the author 30 days ago
United States

There is another issue with starting the game late. Aside from the fact that previous games under these conditions have started on the First Frame of Level One, there is also the problem of floating lag frames. The SNES CPU does not operate at exactly 60.09881389744 fps. It is throttled to this output timing, but it has a floating time for processing data.

In some rooms, the CPU takes longer in a given process, and an extra Lag Frame is added, because the CPU wasn't ready in time for the next frame.

In other rooms, the CPU may be ready sooner, and the next process begins one frame early. Over the course of the game, these Early and Late processes tend to cancel each other out. However, this process will cause inconsistency in timing for Level One. The Prince will "Stand Upright" either 72 or 73 frames after the Level has begun, depending upon whether the CPU calls for a floating lag frame during the first second of gameplay.

So, some runs will be 1-2 frames faster than others, simply by having time arbitrarily start in the middle of the level, rather than on the First Frame, at the beginning of the Game.

More specifically, a "73" will likely take advantage of a 2 frame swing when it gets a Lag Save in the next room, while a "72" will likely take an extra Lag Frame in the next room, resulting in a 3 frame swing. Any other random discrepancy could result in a 4 frame difference, the equivalent of a full animation, just as the run is starting. The only way to avoid such inconsistencies is to have every player start timing when the Level Begins, on the First Frame.

I would strongly encourage the MODs to consider making the rules state that timing begins on the First Frame of Level One, as this is the Most Consistent convention in terms of Precedent with certain prior versions of the game, AND creating a fair playing field by having everyone Start at the Same Time.

The First Frame of Level One will always be The First Frame, and every run, RTA or TAS, will always be run under the same conditions from The First Frame.

If the game started on Level 10, the Prince would be falling as well, but we wouldn't be picking some arbitrary time when the A button becomes effective for grabbing the first ledge. We would say time begins on the First Frame. The same convention should be in use here, as the game has already begun!!

Edited by the author 2 months ago
toca likes this
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