Pulling a disclude:

The final tally is something like this:

No S&Q - ** Keep ** (overwhelming vote) S&Q - ** Keep ** 17 to 11 100% - ** Keep ** (overwhelming vote) Any% - ** Keep ** (overwhelming vote)

Legacy - ** Move to misc ** (overwhelming vote) All Instruments - ** Move to misc ** (overwhelming vote)

Those two categories will be moved as soon as possible.

F / D for A / B (respectively). Space for start. RShift for select.

Last I heard, they were (basically) banning all 1.0 exclusive glitches. I don't read japenese, so I don't know. I was relying on a community member's translation.

I would also like to state that even though the idea of keeping S&Q as an olive branch to the JP community makes sense on paper, it doesn't really work out that way in actuality. All of our S&Q times would be invalid to their leaderboards (and vice versa) due the rules in the different communities. (EG: We do Final Boss text skip, they disallow it; They allow autofire, we disallow it).

In addition, with the exception of Pui, I think (not sure) that no JP runners have actually submitted times to either ZSR or SRC leaderboards for S&Q. Their times were merged from their leaderboards to ours. Food for thought.

Also, we are not voting on the statuses of other categories yet. Any additional categories that we may add will be discussed in the coming weeks, seperately.

Also keep in mind Dan, that RBO is not a category yet. So your vote is to move all categories to Misc., and will be counted as such.

Agreed aullos, It doesn't matter which (no S&Q vs S&Q) we run (they're basically the same). But we tend to run no S&Q.

Also, can everyone format posts as a vote? (so it's easier to count) <3

I'll go first:

-No S&Q -> Keep. It's our main category, and it's the one most people know, watch, and talk about. -Any% -> Keep. It's our Any% category. It may not be as "popular", but every game needs an Any%. -100% -> Keep. Kinda like Any%. It's not popular, but I think most games should have a 100% as a "main" category. -S&Q -> Move to Misc. I have always though that S&Q was a bit unnecessary compared to S&Q. There really is not a difference between the two. I know the Japanese community runs this category, and we have tried to reach out to them, but we have not seen much. I imagine that most people do not agree with me on moving this one. -All Instruments -> Move to Misc. This category, to me, seems to be one of the best candidates for a misc. category. It really seems like an "extra" category in feel. It's not very popular, and very seldom run. -Legacy -> Move to Misc. Same reasons as All Instruments. It's even less popular than AI, and there are only 3 runs total for it. As much as I like this category, I don't think it's "Main Page" material.

VOTE AWAY! :D

EDIT FINAL TALLIES:

The final tally went something like this:

No S&Q - ** Keep ** (overwhelming vote) S&Q - ** Keep ** 17 to 11 100% - ** Keep ** (overwhelming vote) Any% - ** Keep ** (overwhelming vote)

Legacy - ** Move to misc ** (overwhelming vote) All Instruments - ** Move to misc ** (overwhelming vote)

Those two categories will be moved as soon as possible.

Things have died down a bit here after some longer discussions that we've had. This is a good thing! Now I think it's a good time to talk about which (if any) categories we should move to the Miscellaneous section of our LADX page. This is supposed to be a friendly discussion; if things get too heated, I'll probably stop the thread, and we can forget all about it. I would like to hear from anyone involved with LADX. If no one wants to move anything, that's cool. If people only want 1 category on the front, that's cool too. Please be serious about this.

What this thread is NOT: -No discussion of rule changes -No discussion of new categories -No discussion of eliminating categories (In the future, there will be threads covering these topics. I just think it is easiest to handle the most basic idea at a time.)

What this thread is: -Discussion of which (if any) categories should be moved to misc. on speedrun.com/ladx

I would like people to vote on every existing main page category, even if you just "abstain" or "don't care". Just so we can see a full tally.

Again, if we think this is unnecessary, I can stop the thread and we can forget this ever happened! :)

EDIT:

Thread will close on 2016/05/01 10PM EDT (2016/05/02 4AM CET)

Any% ACE has not been shown to be possible (TASBot or otherwise) on console yet. As of right now the "truest" form of Any% is the category without ACE.

In order: -Dungeon (several minutes) -Overworld (several minutes, but you spend less time on the overworld, and it's less technical) -Menu (can amount to minutes) -PoP (40s - 1m) -Bufferless (ave. ~8s)

If you're starting out, your first goal should be "knowing what to do at all times". What I mean is, you should never enter a room and think, "What should I be doing next..?" or "Do I go left or right here?"

After that I would say practice your consistency on segments. Try to get the tricks down to a point where you mess them up rarely or "only sometimes".

Do more runs at that point to be comfortable with the whole route

Then add in more of the advanced strats (like boots on the armos knight, PoP, not doing certain safe strats)

More runs, more practice.

Then optimize. Put in all of the advanced strats. Practice all of the advanced strats. Know the rooms. Know the rng. Know the backup strats. Do segment drills, a lot of segment drills. Then do more runs. Talk with other runners about how they do things. Races. Etc.

[However, the most important thing is to know the route first. You need to feel comfortable. You need to never get lost, and always know what's coming up.]

This exact scenario has been discussed before. The ruling was this:

You are allowed to die in the run. You are allowed to intentionally die, as long as it does not reset Link's position in an advantageous way (in other words, you are allowed to die to refill hearts). Unintentionally dying that also resets Link's position in advantageous way is also banned (like dying to the nightmare key jump in D5 "by mistake").

Seashell duplication is banned. Vote was 7 to 3 in favor of banning it. Locking poll.

So it looks like this topic was discussed thoroughly, and a vote is in progress / finishing up. Locking this thread.

I don't really mind adding "hookshot%" type categories (race categories). These are Misc. categories. These are just extra for fun.

I agree that adding more categories with sparse runs looks gross. But I think the Misc. tab is good for those.

So I've heard that we want some race categories in there. I also think that Glitched 100% should be added.

I like Any% No DH being there too.

I want to create a separate thread for * moving * current categories to that area later.

No.

Precedent. Logic. Consistency. Content.

Precedent should be of the highest priority when making new rules that handle the gray area.

Those are duplications (and thus shouldn't be allowed), and you would still need to pick up all the heart pieces anyways. (Rules say get "all heart pieces"). I also forget what happens if you go over maximum heart containers, but I remember it not being good.

That, and there are instances (a HP or two), where it would be faster. And most (if not all) 100% runners that I know (Leon(?), Riddler, Rusty, darko, Mab, friedpotato) knew about this glitch. No one did it. Community precedent.

It's not written in the rules that duplication of heart pieces is banned. That rule has been been told through word of mouth and agreed upon in a "general" sense.

It still IS about losing the essence of 100%, and still maintaining the rules as they have been followed for the last 3 years. In the last 3 years, we skipped the trading sequence because we forgot to mention it in the original rule set. At the same time, it was agreed on (just not in a formal, forum post way) that duplication (heart pieces), glitch tunic, etc, were banned. The glitches that were banned have been agreed either explicitly or implicitly by any runner who has run 100% on our leaderboards. THAT is the precedent I am trying to preserve.

I keep hearing the same argument about skipping the trading sequence. That is something that kinda slipped by, much like how we used to go OoB in Tal Tal Heights. Since Villa skip came around, and people did runs, skipping the trading sequence, it became too difficult to turn that back around. Yes, skipping the trading sequence is killing a part of 100%, and it is unfortunate that that was allowed to slide, when other glitches have not.

The general agreement, after the mistake of skipping the trading sequence became the norm, was to keep content. So yes, keeping the trading sequence is kind of inconsitent with skipping seashells. Duplicating seashells and not duplicating heart pieces (and other similar glitches) is more inconsistent. Allowing EVERY duplication and glitch goes against the last few years precedent provided by the runners of this category.

Just because one inconsistency has been allowed to fly over the years does not mean we need more. Just because of there was one thing that slipped through the cracks does not mean we need to overhaul the whole category.

"* this sounds very similar to super jumps and look how they are now integrated into the categories that everyone now runs happily. *" This was different. There was ** resounding ** desire to add superjumps to the category. On a similar note, there is an inconstency in the No S&Q rules that is not written anywhere but we all follow and understand. No SuperSwimming. Under no definition is it Out of Bounds, but we consider it to be so. We don't allow SuperSwimming (not stated anywhere) because it would violate the "essence" of no S&Q, although we don't say it. We don't allow heartpiece duping (not stated anywhere) because it would violate the "essence" of the category. We shouldn't allow SS duping (and we can state it now) because it would violate the category. We can ban duplication outright, and we can all integrate and run happily. Integration does not only come from adding new glitches.

Precedent. Rules. Logic. Support. I am not sure what else we need here.

but it's only a duplication if you do it twice ;)

(And it's still not covered by the rules. However, I have no problem with banning it at all. It can all get filed under a "no duplication" rule.)