There should be a maximum length to the IL list, after which there should be scroll bar

Example with some custom CSS (I'm sure Elo professional engineers can set it up better)

Sorry, I rarely check this forum.

Probably won't add it, I don't see much current interest.

Remember to check out some older similar runs, if you haven't already. HC47to HBM by Buruk: HC47 to H2016 by Kotti:

This sound incredibly vague, but this usually isn't a glitch, it depends on how you set up your default timing method (which you can see by going to edit game -> info).

If your default timing method is real time, then games with only in game time will be at the bottom, even if they have faster in game times than some other runs that have both in game time and real time.

If you are sorting runs by real time, then it makes sense that runs without real time entered will be at the bottom of the list.

You can't set different timing methods per category.

You have two choices here.

1. Manually edit each submission that fills out the wrong timing field, for all eternity (and believe me, there will be a lot). On the plus side, if edited well, your leaderboard will be more comprehensible to the casual viewer (they will know how your game is timed at a glance).

2. Don't use the speedrun.com "in game time" option, but tell runners to submit their in-game time to the "real time" field for this one category that uses in game time. That probably sounds confusing, here is an example: https://www.speedrun.com/hitmanbloodmoney The full game runs use Real Timing, but the individual levels use in game time (but it's not specified as "in game time" by the speedrun.com UI). This has the benefit of less moderation hassle, don't need to edit wrong submissions. It has the con of being more confusing to casual viewers and new players (need to read the rules more carefully before submitting runs).

General lack of interest in the community in using this glitch. And in the context of category extensions, most of the skill in sniper/ explosives etc runs is making the kill occur without the body being found. Tranq glitch obsoletes this skill.

At this time, I don't think there is enough demand for Elusive Target Category Extensions (I have seen some fiberwire ET runs, but that's it).

For now I think we shouldn't add elusive target category extensions, but that may change in the future if interest increases.

https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_extensions

Time to dig some old proposals out of the vault I guess. And yes, I submitted most of these previously to the support hub... for all the good it is doing....

• In a nutshell, there is now an arbitrary limit on the number of category and subcategories you can have on a leaderboard until some or all categories/ subcategories are hidden behind dropdown menus. This comes off as very condescending from Elo, taking control of how to format leaderboards out of the game moderators' hands. More discussion here
  • This obsoletes the "miscellaneous" category feature, because once all subcategories are hidden behind a dropdown, there is no distinguishing the subcategories the game mod designated as miscellaneous, and the subcategories Elo decided to hide. It's just so annoyingly bureaucratic! /rant
• People talked about how we need the ability to selectively apply subcategories and categories to some, but not all levels. I'd also like to point out that currently you cannot apply subcategories to one specific subcategory, although you can apply subcategories to one specific top level category. More explanation here.

This brings me to my next point...

So, why are speedrun.com leaderboards so crunched for space (apparently) that we need dropdown menus for everything now?

• Answer: Elo needs to make more money from ads. Need I say more? Look, I get Elo needs to make money, but surely there's a better way to position ads that doesn't involve wasting a ton of space on the left and right of the screen, which could be used for meaningful information like more room to list categories, etc.

Ok, I feel like the OP didn't really elaborate on what "better IL support" should entail, and I play a lot of IL speedruns, so I figure I will elaborate

IL table problems To be clear, this is about the "view all levels" leaderboard table, for example: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3

• Problem 1: The IL table can only show up to 4? subcategories until you have to use a scroll bar. As can be seen by this monstrosity. Now, a scroll bar in and of itself isn't a huge deal, but the UI on the table with scroll is terrible. You literally can't see the top column labels once you scroll down the table a bit, and you similarly can't see the row labels once you scroll right, meaning I've had to add "placeholder runs" to the Hitman 3 Extensions leaderboards, which is kind of ridiculous compensation for bad site design.

  • I've proposed a few solutions to this issue here. Namely, utilize space on each side of the table better (probably won't happen due to Elo loving ads), or add row/ column labels that will scroll with you.

• Problem 2: The IL table only shows the "default" category of IL runs. Ex: You can only see PC runs as default here: https://www.speedrun.com/rogue1/levels

  • You should be able to toggle between subcategories and be able to see all IL console runs on a leaderboard table for a quick summary, instead of having to go into each individual level to see the console record. That's just inane. More explanation here.
  • Being able to toggle between subcategories on the IL table would also help a lot for organizing leaderboards better to avoid the issue of having to have more than 4 columns of categories to begin with, thus avoiding the scroll bar issue above.

Miscellaneous IL problems These aren't huge issues, but the sum total of these oversights really makes me feel like IL's are discriminated against here.

• Why does the "active players" stat in game statistics not count IL runs? Are they deemed lesser by Elo? Example At the very least, please separate out an "active full game players" and "active IL players", similarly to how there are separate "recent IL runs" and "recent full game runs" stats.
• Why does the "recent runs" widget prioritize the category of the IL run over the level it was played on? I feel like if I had to only have one category or subcategory to go off of, I'd want to know which level a run was performed on, vs knowing if the run was any% (example) category. I literally cannot comprehend any info from the recent runs widget when it comes to IL runs.

• We really should get ability to have separate timing methods for IL vs full game, this is long overdue
• There should be option to only have in-game timing/ loadless timing, without also having "real time" tacked on. Some games are just IGT only, why is real time forced onto it needlessly? Coming form someone who has to edit out false "real time" submissions for eternity for IGT games.
• Even when IGT is the default timing method, the real time is prioritized when you click on the run, as seen here. This is strange, especially because when using RTA loadless, the RTA loadless time is shown first over the RTA with loads on the run.
• Ability to mass edit runs would be so helpful as sometimes you decide later down the road you want to switch timing methods.

• Why did Elo remove the website and discord server labels? You can barely see those tiny little symbols now. Also, labeling the website gave much needed context to what the website was, so the player knows if the site is worth clicking or not.
• At some point will other games besides the sponsored one (Severed Steel) get the option to have multiple Discord servers linked on the page? Ex: https://www.speedrun.com/severed_steel Or is this a pay to have feature? Seems discriminatory when only this game has it. Many other games have multiple speedrun Discord servers for one reason or another and could use this.
  • Note that you can't even tell which discord server is what on the Severed Steel page due to Elo removing labels on them... nice...

Probably won't be added, no.

Silent Assassin in this game already means no bodies were found, since accident kills can result in body found.

Adding bodies hidden is mostly redundant because it's the same thing, except the game arbitrarily thinks a body is "hidden". Even though in practice, a body hidden in a secluded corner is just as hidden as a body in a snow pile/ bush etc.

May consider adding a "bodies hidden" variable, but not a new category. The sniper assassin game mode is pretty bare bones in general, it's not gonna have that many ways to speedrun it.

Hitman 2 Category Extensions (Accidents, Default Loadout, Fiberwire, etc): https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_2_extensions

Hitman 3 (and 2) Elusive Targets: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_et

• Note that this leaderboard only accepts Hitman 2 runs possible in Hitman 3 game version to the "Standard" category.

Hitman 3 (and 2) Escalations: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_escalations

• Note that this leaderboard only accepts Hitman 2 runs possible in Hitman 3 game version to the "Standard" category.

Hitman 3 (and 2) Sniper Missions: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_sniper_assassin

Hitman 3 Freelancer: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_freelancer

Hitman 3 Category Extensions (Accidents, Default Loadout, Fiberwire, etc): https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_extensions

Hitman 3 (and 2) Elusive Targets: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_et

Hitman 3 (and 2) Escalations: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_escalations

Hitman 3 (and 2) Sniper Missions: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_sniper_assassin

Hitman 3 VR: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_vr

Reminder that the dropdown "feature" is also in place for subcategories: What's especially weird about the subcategory dropdown implementation is that once you get past 4 subcategories or so, then only one is shown by default. Assuming a dropdown is needed, there should be 4 subcategories shown by default, and rest in dropdown, at least??

The new variable and category format overall comes off as incredibly bureaucratic and condescending from Elo, like they are saying "we know better than you how to do category and variable layouts". It's also plain as day that Elo did zero testing with game with a lot of categories, or else they surely would have realized it's an unreasonable amount of scrolling.

Did Elo forget that leaderboards here are supposed to be community-driven? Things like leaderboard format should be handled by each game's community. Game moderators could already hide categories/ subcategories before, via the "misc." option. If they didn't hide those categories, they had a reason for it, which Elo wholly disregarded.

It's especially eye-opening that the advice in the community news post of the initial update was that game moderators can just "adjust the placement of the default category if they don't like what gets shown".

This just comes off as so tone-deaf, the response to "why can I not see all the subcategories I'd like visible" is not "If you don't like which ONE subcategory is shown, then you can change the order".

Custom CSS for the category issue (doesn't work for subcategory dropdown) in the meantime: https://twitter.com/furious_/status/1448718742498779136?s=20

Obviously still waiting for an official fix, since you can't expect the average leaderboard viewer to install custom CSS scripts.

I know web development is hard, so don't take any of the criticism personally, but I just don't see why anyone thought it's a good idea to take leaderboard format out of community hands to begin with. Please fully revert the subcategory/ category changes ASAP, respect the choices of individual game moderators and game communities.

Update: https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_3_escalations

My take on some custom CSS (more customized for individual level runs). Some of these improvements are learned from Oreo and FURIOUS on Twitter, but I added some improvements too: https://pastebin.com/VZg5qJeZ I assume people know how to use Stylus to run the CSS script, but there's a tutorial in the Chrome webstore link if not.

I'm a novice at CSS so there's probably stuff I missed/ don't know how to do. Also this is tailored to what I find important, you can edit it as you see fit.

• All categories are visible by default, no more scroll right/ left button for categories. Note that if there are misc. categories on that leaderboard, you will have to press the scroll right button once for the misc. tab to appear.
• Font sizes reworked to all be fairly easy on the eyes and proportional, without need for further zooming in on the site.
• Font color for categories currently not being viewed, has been lightened so they are more visible.
• Game stats/ Moderation/ recent runs widget moved down to make more room for leaderboard.
• Empty space on left and right of leaderboard removed for more leaderboard space (this won't work well if you don't have adblock on).
• Comments hidden as they seem pretty terrible at the moment.

Other things I'd like to fix but not sure how/ if possible via CSS:

• Change the dropdown feature for extra variables, to not have dropdown anymore.
• Possibly move the moderator and recent runs widget above the leaderboard.

I found the issue.

As stupid as it sounds, you can't have the second / after the URL or GET request. https://www.speedrun.com/api/v1/regions will show all regions, while https://www.speedrun.com/api/v1/regions/ will return a 404.

For Platforms you will need to add ?max=1000 (or some high arbitrary limit) due to a high number of platforms that don't all show by default. Ex: https://www.speedrun.com/api/v1/platforms?&max=1000

This may apply to the other API codes you are interested in as well.

You should familiarize yourself with the API github page: https://github.com/speedruncomorg/api/tree/master/version1 Take a look at regions.md, platform.md, gametype.md, etc

https://www.speedrun.com/api/v1/regions/pr184lqn will for example return the USA region as that is what the ID of pr184lqn refers to.

Summing up my thoughts on the new layout for categories, after giving it more thought. Hope site staff and other concerned users will give it a read.

####New category layout changes

• If a "top level" category for a leaderboard has more than 4 categories, any extra categories are hidden behind a "scroll right" button.
  • (In this context, a "top level" category is any category you can edit via Edit Game -> Categories).
  • This means you will need to keep pressing the scroll button as many as 5 or 6 times for Category Extension leaderboard with a lot of "top level" categories.

• Any subcategory below the top level categories (any category that you can edit via Edit Game -> Variables) will always be hidden behind a dropdown menu if there are more than about 4 subcategories.
  • This is inconsistent with how excessive top level categories are handled, it seems weird that at least the first 4 subcategories are not shown in a row on the leaderboard, and that they are all hidden behind a dropdown.

I think the thing that irks me with the new category dropdown/ scroll right button is it comes off as very condescending and bureaucratic for the sake of being bureaucratic Game mods could already hide extra categories under miscellaneous categories if they wanted before; clearly if they didn’t do that they had a good reason to. For instance, maybe the game mods figured it is better a leaderboard look a little messy aesthetically, than it being hard to find all the categories. Either way, it should be left to the community/ moderators of each game, and not handled by a central bureaucracy.

The category layout change comes off as Elo thinking they know better than the individual game mods of how to format leaderboards and taking it into their own hands.

• Ideally, we can just revert the category layout to how it is before, giving game moderators full creative control on how they would like to structure their leaderboard categories. Again, I am baffled by this change, and misc. categories are effectively obsolete in leaderboards with many categories now. The freedom for which categories to hide and how is out of game moderator's hands now.

Alternate Solutions, if reverting the changes altogether is not possible or desired by Elo

• Note that "4 categories" is a rough heuristic here, the maximum amount of categories per row seems to also be affected by the number of words in each category name.
• For top level categories (see first picture above), please put excessive categories beyond the first 4 in a dropdown menu (similar to how misc. categories worked before). I'd much rather use a dropdown menu to access additional categories, than use a scroll right button, which could take ages on some leaderboards.
• For subcategories (see second picture above), please format at least the first 4 subcategories in a row on the leaderboard, before putting any further categories into a dropdown menu. As it is, it doesn't seem logical that if you have 4 subcategories all will be shown on the leaderboard, but 5 or 6 categories will result in only one being shown, and the rest in a dropdown. Let's have some consistency here between top level category and subcategory layout.

Thanks for reading if you got to the end.

Tbh a lot of the problems with things being cut off and such could be avoided if the site actually made use of horizontal space. This example here look at how little horizonal space is being used.

@Lonne It's very clear why the site uses so little horizontal space, and it's deliberate.

All so they can show you advertisements on both sides of the screen... Sadly there is even less room for leaderboards between the two ads on each side and the new (useless) game stats section.

As others have said, the decision to make arrow button scrolling for leaderboards with many categories is not a good decision when it comes to functionality.

You'll be pressing the scroll button like 10 times for big category extension leaderboards. To me it's more important a leaderboard works than if it looks good aesthetically, I don't agree with this design choice.

The right side info is also not only taking up a lot of space, but arguably misleading. The "Players (Total/ Active)" statistic is not accurate (nor has it been while the game statistics were on another page). The active players statistic does not take into account individual level runs, which is misleading for any game that has more focused on individual levels.

On a positive note, the "Game Resources page" now formats descriptions correctly, it used to be that resource descriptions would not wrap next correctly, with words cut off on the right side of the page.

Probably will compile the bugs into support hub ticket too later, if someone hasn't already.

Pros of new Moderation Hub:

• You can now verify multiple runs from the same webpage. When you verify or reject a run, the run in question disappears from the mod hub page without needing to refresh it.
• Verified and rejected runs now are sorted chronologically (with latest runs on top). Recently rejected runs sorting chronologically is particularly a big plus, previously some rejected runs just would not be showing up unless you tracked them down in the api.

Cons/ Bugs of new Moderation Hub

• Trying to edit a run will redirect you to the run itself, not the "edit run" page. For example clicking on "edit run" will send you to https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_2/run/y69op11y, not https://www.speedrun.com/hitman_2/editrun/y69op11y So you will have to click through two links to edit a run from mod hub.
• After verifying or rejecting a run, the "pending runs" notification amount won't decrease until you refresh the mod hub page (which can be confusing)

Other

• This is probably subjective, but for larger boards, a video embed for every run submission might be counterproductive. Each video embed is decently big, if you have a lot of submissions you will have to scroll down a lot to just glance at every run. It is a bit harder to roughly gauge the pending runs you have compared to the old list format. But, video embeds for each run on the mod hub page also lets you watch and verify multiple runs within the same webpage, so there are pros and cons.
• An option to toggle between different video embed sizes would be nice for the above reason.
• Note that the old run verifying page is still accessible if you prefer the old verification page setup. (maybe a direct link to it on the site should still exist?)

Edit: They fixed the offset notification issue