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Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Forum  /  Updated rules discussion + some other stuff
  EBenEBen

Yes haha nobody on the planet uses manually splitting haha how silly of me haha 🙂

 
  EBenEBen

""This is absolutely false, there is evidence because a moderator of the game verified it. There is no better evidence than a mod saying they watched the video and were happy with it being on the leaderboard."

Mods verified FLYINGs runs so I guess he's not cheating since there's appearently no better evidence. big lmao."

This is an insanely stupid comparison

 
  KZ_FREWKZ_FREW
(edited: )

Said it already, I think, but my thoughts on runs with no video: IMO, when you click on a time on a speedrun leaderboard, you should be able to watch it.

If the video is gone, we can no longer peer review it. If something is illegitimate about the run that the verifier did not catch, we can never know, because the evidence is gone.

The peer review is important because it makes the evidence of the run being legit available for everyone, not just mods. It's kind of a checks and balances thing, right? That way, we're not blindly trusting mods that the added scores are in fact legit. We can see it for ourselves.

I don't like the argument of "a moderator verified it, and that is evidence" because uh.. Twin Galaxies. Lots of their scores don't have verifiable proof, only "referee" verification. This approach has caused them a lot of headache and controversy because of corrupt referees, or otherwise impossible scores making it onto their leaderboards. This is why I think video evidence is important. This keeps it from happening. The proof is out there for everyone to see.

Now, that said, I'm quite aware that this (largely) applies to times that aren't competitive, but then we've just circled back around to subjective enforcement for WR/competitive times vs. ones lower on the list.

Ark, raul9011raul9011 and Tier4JeanTier4Jean like this. 
  EBenEBen

"If the video is gone, we can no longer peer review it. If something is illegitimate about the run that the verifier did not catch, we can never know, because the evidence is gone."
Almost all of these videos were available for years, and were likely viewed by many runners. The chances of them being illegitimate is very close to zero.

"That way, we're not blindly trusting mods that the added scores are in fact legit."
I've said this before, if you cannot trust mods because you think they might be "corrupt" then you shouldn't have them as mods in the first place. Yes they may not be a moderator anymore, but if you think the old mods like Josh are corrupt then idk.

If we continue to wipe any videos with no evidence whenever twitch decides to delete shit, soon we will be left with nothing.

DaravaeDaravae, 2727 and Kamiks0320Kamiks0320 like this. 
  blacklevblacklev
(edited: )

It's not that mods are corrupt, but they definitely make mistakes all the time, like we did with anti. That being said, unless the run was WR at some point, I don't think a missing vid warrants run removal. Especially that sooner or later most twitch or youtube vids will be completely gone / URLs will change, and policing missing runs would be too much effort, and removing them is also potentially a deletion of ex-runners' run history (because a lot of people (myself included) don't keep their run history besides on SR.com).

The loss of run history itself is such a strong argument against no-vid-run deletion that I think it negates any kinda benefit deleting those runs would have.

Ark likes this. 
  ResetReset
(edited: )

Timing Start - I'd prefer if it started whenever IGT starts, this prevents any messing with the traffic lights or traffic, but CS skip is acceptable too.

Subjective rule enforcement - Ban NG+ for everyone just like accidental cheats are banned for everyone, these two things are pretty similar but one is fully banned the other one isn't.

Runs with no video - If there's no video, how could we know the run was ever done, or it's legit, or it adheres to the rules?
Those runs being there just ridicules the concept of video verification.

It's up to the runners to provide the runs , not for moderators to chase them. Just like when a stream dies for a few minutes there's too much content lost... you should just have locally recorded. These picnics could be the fault of Twitch, but so what?

hoxihoxi likes this. 
  2727
(edited: )

@lelreset

> almost all of those videos were available for years and were likely viewed by many runners.

half of the runs that link to twitch vod will be gone sooner or later, because of the way the platform works, so just because they got deleted by twitch, doesn't mean that they are illegitimate

 
  ThunderThunder

Like lelreset says, I agree to start timer as soon as you can skip the first cutscene after "Francis INTL. Airport, Liberty City, 1992" because it affects the traffic cycle and traffic in general. The reason why GTA III got a new timing start to be considered WR for same reason.

 
  BlantasBlantas

IGT starts after loading bar dissappears, actually.

 
  PowdinetPowdinet

No, but if you are on a sidewalk and an out of control car runs you over it's certainly bad luck. What you're essentially saying is that runs from runners who have been long inactive are worthless because the runners are inactive, either because they moved on or have no time. If these runs are so worthless what's the point of having a leaderboard in the first place? Just delete every run except the World Record. Who cares if those people had PBs? They have no videos for things they did 3 years ago so clearly they didn't wear a seatbelt tight enough.

Reminder to look both ways before you cross the street... I mean, reminder to keep your PBs in your harddrive for years just in case twitch runs you over and you have to replace your skull
http://puu.sh/BJYQf/7e7374f414.png

pizzafourlifepizzafourlife, MakkebakkeMakkebakke and 6 others like this. 
  BackmadeJayBackmadeJay

I think the thread has been open well past fair to start to make some changes.

Being that most people are in a agreement in the most part of timing starting at the cutscene skip but still needs a proper vote discussing 1) pros and cons of the change. 2) vote of change, no change, 3rd option. 3) adequate time for people to cast a vote.

FPS frame limiter: on is what i've seen the most of but just like my previous comment needs a vote.

All Missions: I've made a route for this with the added BMX and NRG challenge and all city races with allowing GT skip. Although right now it's outdated but the concept remains the same and i'm sure there is a better way to optimize the route than the one I've laid out. ( can share my notes and videos on this matter )

 
  ResetReset
(edited: )

What happened to this thread?

How is video proof even a discussion. Yeah guys, trust Twitch to keep your runs and if your videos are removed by this specific website some people post their runs on we'll be sure to keep the submissions on the leaderboard. Makes sense.

LucasLucas likes this. 
  dhadha

I'd suggest video proof only for top times (top 10?), this will motivate new people to do runs even if they can't record and then maybe if they become good they might decide to start recording videos or change their quality standars LelresPCJ.
Put those old runs back!!!

 
  DerpethDerpeth

No, that's retarded.

hoxihoxi and ThunderThunder like this. 
  hoxihoxi

Requiring videos from only top runners is an incredibly awful idea, I heavily doubt anyone would agree to implement it.

ThunderThunder, frankdilaurofrankdilauro and 4 others like this. 
  VargoVargo

Is there any update on All Assets?

 
  Shadow_DogShadow_Dog

Great news @Vargo ! Just got done talking to the board moderators and they said that they'll be waiting for YOUR SUBMISSION WITH A VIDEO FROM YOU over @

https://www.speedrun.com/gtamemes/editrun#Non-existent_category

coollertmbcoollertmb likes this. 
  Diewott1Diewott1

@Shadow_Dog wait... I saw you using this same comment in another thread...

 
  ThunderThunder
(edited: )

This seems to be forgotten, while the timing rule has been discussed and alot of people thought that it would be better to change the timing. As we have most people running with cutscene skip and very few with -0.8. The All Missions gt skip has been added but what about the timing now?

In my opinion, it should start whenever you have control in the cutscene, because of traffic & traffic light abuse.

ult1matumult1matum, fauluxfaulux and Michael_WMichael_W like this. 
  KZ_FREWKZ_FREW

Quote

In my opinion, it should start whenever you have control in the cutscene, because of traffic & traffic light abuse.

Traffic is always different though. How would you be able to abuse it from the cutscene? Unless you did something obvious like hit New Game while standing in the LV strip, and in that case, your proposal wouldn't really be preventing that.

I'm willing to change the timing rules now, I held off on this because if there were other discussions to be had, I wanted to change additional rules all at once instead of a lot of minor updates. For example, what if someone found ES dupe was consistent at a certain FPS? But nothing like that has happened, so it seems there's no interest in that sort of discussion.

I realize that I'm contradicting myself because we changed AM rules pretty quickly, so timing rule could've been changed then. I guess with AM changes that I was hoping would garner interest for the category, which did work, for a few days anyway.

KrystianKrystian and Michael_WMichael_W like this.