Full Game Leaderboard
555 We Tip
A Home In The Hills
Against All Odds
Are You Going To San Fierro
Beat Down On B Dup
Beat The Cock (Palomino Creek)
Beat The Cock (Santa Maria Beach)
Bike School: Jump and Stop
Bike School: Jump and Stoppie
Bike School: The 180
Bike School: The 360
Bike School: The Stoppie
Bike School: The Wheelie
Boat School: Basic Seamanship
Boat School: Flying Fish
Boat School: Fresh Slalom
Boat School: Land, Sea and Air
Boat School: Plot a Course
Breaking The Bank At Caligula's
Cleaning The Hood
Customs Fast Track
Cut Throat Business
Dam And Blast
Driving School: Alley Oop
Driving School: Burn and Lap
Driving School: City Slicking
Driving School: Cone Coil
Driving School: P.I.T. Maneuver
Driving School: Pop and Control
Driving School: Spin and Go
Driving School: The '90'
Driving School: The 180
Driving School: The 360
Driving School: Wheelie Weave
Driving School: Whip and Terminate
End Of The Line
Grove 4 Life
High Stakes, Low Rider
Ice Cold Killa
Into the Country
Key To Her Heart
Las Venturas Courier
Learning To Fly
Life's A Beach
Local Liquor Store
Los Santos Courier
Madd Dogg's Rhymes
Monster (Race timing)
Mountain Cloud Boys
New Model Army
Nines And AK's
Pilot School: Barrel Roll
Pilot School: Circle Airstrip
Pilot School: Circle Airstrip and Land
Pilot School: Destroy Targets
Pilot School: Helicopter Takeoff
Pilot School: Land Helicopter
Pilot School: Land Plane
Pilot School: Loop-the-Loop
Pilot School: Parachute Onto Target
Pilot School: Takeoff
Ran Fa Li
Reuniting The Families
Robbing Uncle Sam
Saint Mark's Bistro
San Fierro Courier
San Fierro Fastlane
San Fierro Hills
Scotch Bonnet Yellow Route
SF to LV
Small Town Bank
Tagging Up Turf
The Da Nang Thang
The Green Sabre
The Meat Business
Toreno's Last Flight
Up, Up, And Away!
Wear Flowers In Your Hair
Whirly Bird Waypoint
World War Ace
Wrong Side Of The Tracks
You've Had Your Chips
People? Less than 10 people are taking it seriously. We know the category has a lot of potential but it doesn´t mean the category is important (at least at all).
East Riding of Yorkshire, England
The thing you need to remember is 0 people take LS% seriously 🙂
|TopalMuharremTopalMuharrem likes this.|
Didn't see the second page of this thread, my B. I'll try to respond to some stuff.
Yeah, this is a great point. It's part of the reason that a total "Cities" LB the way lelreset suggests is potentially problematic. A "Badlands" leaderboard on the main boards would be unique to every other category, misc or otherwise, in that it doesn't start at "new game" -- which is again why I believe these runs are practice categories, and the Category Extensions board is a great place to house these.
Relatively speaking, it is one of the more active categories right now.
Is this an issue? If your time isn't competitive, should it still be held to the same regard as WR? I don't think there's a right answer for this; there's a couple different ways you could look at it.
One would be: it doesn't matter, people who aren't sub 6 don't need to restart the game every attempt because the impact is minor and you have more time save by just playing better.
Two would be: Yes, hold it to the same regard. Which is totally fair -- implementing the same standards for everyone. The argument against this would probably be that it raises the barrier to entry in a way that is, perhaps, unnecessary for new or learning players.
Unfortunately you removed all your runs so there's no record of this claim, unless you want me to hunt down your YouTube channel, which is a bunch of random letters; so there's no real way to search for the runs themselves, either.
Either way, it seems you miss the point. I'm not challenging your authority on San Andreas; whatever authority either of us harbor is irrelevant. I'm making the statement that you seem to pop up from nowhere, see a few things that irk you, and then delete your runs and post a tirade without having a real conversation about any of this before deciding that doing something dramatic is necessary. It's not a matter of authority.
This does not put you, or your arguments, above criticism. If you haven't noticed, I also do not put myself above criticism; so this just seems like projection. How I carry myself isn't the topic, so I'm not sure why you're going on about it.
I have already said that we made a mistake regarding this. Anti was friends with many in the community and we didn't anticipate him to do something so pointless as to cheat. He streamed his runs and spent loads of time playing -- why ruin that by making it all illegitimate? Your skepticism was warranted, and we were too trusting. The issue now is if we learn from it, or not.
If you find something on FLYING, please let me or someone else know, because we've been unable to find evidence of cheating. If you want to do something about it, help us investigate. I know at least one drive of his (end of Robbing Uncle Sam) has been timed vs. Anti's cheated run, as well as your own run, and nothing was suspect.
Which leaves the possible conclusion of: he is cheating in ways that aren't visibly detectable. If you believe we need to put more pressure on him to provide proof, I believe that's fair; hence your frustration that nothing is being done. This is something we can consider pursuing, if it'll put these claims, and everyone's suspicions, to rest.
If he doesn't want to cooperate, we'd probably just have to remove his times. Right? In the interest of fairness and transparency, it seems like the thing to do.
I explained this in the above post, but the board follows a pretty obvious philosophy that isn't my personal opinion; it was established as such before I got here. When adding a category to the main or misc boards, you would generally want the philosophy behind the organization to be retained. So, when we consider adding a category, the first thing we should consider is: does it make sense?
If you want to argue that the philosophy itself should be changed, that's perfectly legitimate, but to make the claim that it's my personal opinion and that I am shutting out other opinions is total conjecture. I don't think it's unreasonable to state that, as the boards are right now, adding LS is inconsistent to everything else.
I have never stated, or insinuated, that I am above criticism.
Because you are a good player and it is a shame.
This is fair; the unfortunate thing is a lot of this can't be helped. Super old runs may not have videos anymore, even though they had working videos at the time and as such were verified. Should we remove them now that the video is no longer accessible?
|ThunderThunder likes this.|
"Is this an issue? If your time isn't competitive, should it still be held to the same regard as WR? I don't think there's a right answer for this; there's a couple different ways you could look at it."
Then why ban accidental cheats for everyone? I'll tell you why, because you people only see what's on the fucking surface, that's why, i'd say very few know about NG+ and very few care, as expected. Accidental cheats arguably have way less affect than NG+ stuff.
You still haven't answered why it was okay to ban ginput and not ban other mods that arguably give advantage.
You still haven't answered how you time runs when control can be gained on a black screen, are you a magician?
Once again, why speedrun & more importantly why care about this website when the leaderboard is made up of some subjective rules randoms made up?
You try to justify the decisions that are made, but you don't talk about the people who made these decisions, does anyone even know who they are and why this stuff is decided specifically by these very few people?
"without having a real conversation" - Then what threads did I just post in my post? Did you not see me posting in them? Selective hearing?
I have brought these things up so so many times, whether it was here or the discord and spoiler: nothing happened.
"How I carry myself isn't the topic,so I'm not sure why you're going on about it."
So you can say personal things about me, but I can't do that, I'm going on about it because you started this, it's funny how once you hear something that you don't want to, you backtrack to question the topic.
"If you find something on FLYING, please let me or someone else know, because we've been unable to find evidence of cheating"
I did let someone know, nearly a year ago as well, ironically. Mouse sprinting is retarded, they should have had him do a run with inputs, he has also should probably send over his handling file after the runs.
It is WAY too late now.
Whether I personally think he cheats or not doesn't matter, I don't think he does. What matters is people do nothing about past cheaters, as shown here. So what are the value of these leaderboards again? There is hardly any.
"I see nothing wrong with his runs" - You see nothing wrong because you don't try to, as I explained above why you don't want to. Caring about the surface. AGAIN.
"Should we remove them now that the video is no longer accessible?" Lol, yes, how can you know the run has adhered to the rules that were put in place in the past, or the current rules now if you can't see it?
Are you just going to bank on faith it happened, it kind of ridicules the concept of video verification, if these people still have videos they are free to re-submit them, no?
|MunatMunat and Kamiks0320Kamiks0320 like this.|
Flying has not proven anything. If are smart you can learn to hide a lot of forms of cheating:
He shows some mouse configuration program showing his scrolling without the mouse making noise: He could have recorded legitimate scrolling and played it back. He could have had his mouse miles away from the microphone. The thing is that these accusations were quite funny since this mouse is known/"known" from checking review videos to be silent when scrolling slowly (which you do in runs) and loud when scrolling fast. It started out very suspicious but was debunked fast.
He shows some files: Just edit the data in RAM. It is easy, but I will not give you a tutorial. 😃 You can ask for a RAM dump - he can temporarily revert changes and temporarily detach his manipulation program from the game.
He shows his taskmanager: You can hide processes. Remember that Flying is knowledgable about computers.
A hand cam cannot be fooled, afaik. I don't know if those/some of them have variable delay, though, so that the game feed and handcam feed do not match up. Also, you would need two of them. ^^ That is something I would only force cheaters to go through, though. ^^
E: We can catch dumb cheaters, though, who mod vehicles that are used in W-only drives to drive way faster. 😃 And then believe it was just a botched game or something and call it a day.
|MunatMunat, volosi_nazadvolosi_nazad and 2 others like this.|
Well, no, it's not something I've considered and it's a good point. I wasn't mod when we cracked down on this, but if we're going to subjectively "relax" on the rules for newbies, it's also reasonable to forgive accidental cheats alongside NG+ effects.
Curious on your opinion for this though: RoK accidentally entered a HESOYAM cheat the other day. He was on the way to a bustedwarp, so the health and armor didn't really matter, but obviously he got $250K. But nonetheless it is a much more impactful cheat than accidentally spawning a Rancher, or forcing sunny weather. Should this run be considered illegitimate? Would it be forgiven, unless he made use of this advantage? (i.e. buying a shitload of SMG ammo for Local Liquor Store)
What other mods? You mean like windowers and dinput8?
Honestly I'd be fine with unbanning GInput, but I've not done it yet because we haven't had the discussion and I don't just want to upend the leaderboards based on my personal opinion. I am trying to be objective and fair. I am not perfect, though, and that's why it is good to have these talks -- perspective helps.
We can change this, because you're right. Timing start on cutscene skip is easy enough to implement because the autosplitter already does this.
Speedrun for fun. You don't have to care for this website or LB, obviously, but the rules are always going to be subjective because this is a hobby and the rules are decided based on what we think is fair and fun. I wouldn't call anyone "random", they've been around for a while; but if you're saying that people shouldn't be given free pass because of longevity I will agree with you.
Because I'm trying to be fair and objective. In doing so, it makes sense to evaluate things on their own merit instead of who said it. If you want people in charge who have their ear to the ground and are involved with the game, I grant you that -- it's what I'm trying to do.
These frustrations are fair and I have certainly been vocal about other things in the past (different things than you, perhaps)
You're probably right. I am making an active effort to leave personal stuff out of this post. It's not necessary and will only make both of us angry and continue the pattern of nothing being resolved. If I spoke out of turn, that's on me. I will work on it.
To me, (and correct me if I'm wrong), this is a complicated matter with no real answer at hand. How do we ensure flying is "clean"? Patrick stated a bunch of reasons why this won't be easy. Hand cam is a good idea, but won't catch everything. If anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear them. For now, I'm just trying to put it out there that I'm listening and I understand this and something should be done.
Vice City's AM is equally arbitrary, though. No Chopper Checkpoints, no Trial by Dirt/Test Track/PCJ Playground, no RC races, no stadium events, not even Boatyard is in that run because Checkpoint Charlie doesn't "change the name of the save file"
That said, if people want an All Missions category with more stuff in it, I am not opposed to this.
This is fair. We should have pressed him harder because the burden of proof is on him -- not us -- as he's been dishonest with us in the past. As I stated above, how to move forward on this is pretty sticky (IMO), so I will certainly listen to ideas and opinions on this.
Jolzi and Gael are series mods and were appointed as such years and years ago, when this website was "speedrunrecords.com" -- this is why their modding is still "in effect" here on the SA boards. They occasionally verify runs, but don't really do much else except for issues that pertain to multiple/all games in the series. One of your complaints earlier was consistency across the LBs, series mods are one way for the games to be tied together in that sense. If there was an issue that spanned multiple games, I wouldn't really be able to do much about it unless SA was involved. Folks like Jolzi, Gael, Odyssic, Powdinet would have more say in these matters as they're the foundation to everything that's been built up over the years. Do you feel as though they're ineffective in these roles?
Because I don't want another long thread with nothing to show for it at the end of all this (lol), here's what I'm hearing:
More consistent rules and enforcement --- As it pertains to non-competitive runs, as well as the mods/tools that are allowed
All Missions discussion
Am I missing anything?
RhansRhans, volosi_nazadvolosi_nazad and 10 others
KZ_FREW is slowly restoring my faith in humanity, thank you.
|MunatMunat, gold_wavgold_wav and RhansRhans like this.|
volosi_nazadvolosi_nazad, EllieChanEllieChan and 6 others
Backing lelresetfeg on the flying situation. Reminder that he tried to submit AT LEAST 2 "TAS'd" runs, intentionally, and EVEN HID A SPLICE ("dream frame" stuff, and there could be more that people just didn't bother to search for). People may say that english is not his 1st language or whatever, but if you ever watch his stream for more than 5 minutes you can hear that he has more than basic understanding of english and he knew exactly what he was doing submitting those runs. How his later runs were accepted just because he streamed is a big question mark. He should've been at least temporary suspended from submitting runs on the lb.
> He showed his folder.
It's not hard to have more than 1 install of the game on a PC. I would be surprised that speedrunners that run this game seriously don't have more than 1 install instance of the game on PC.
> Mouse scrolling.
Besides the sound stuff which is still a bit questionable - never "fast scrolling", even randomly, throughout all of his attempts - the fact that he "rebinds" in mouse software and not ingame is a huge question mark.
|MunatMunat, agjentsagjents and Tier4JeanTier4Jean like this.|
Yeah, the whole Flying situation was a mess and wasn't handled well. Tho, it is never too late to ask for more proof whenever he does his next runs.
Congratulations on your new Any% WR, lelreset!
It´s always nice to see a good runner getting awesome runs. Congratulations, Reset.
|RhansRhans, volosi_nazadvolosi_nazad and Tier4JeanTier4Jean like this.|
Is this glitch allowed?
Duping in the Definitive Edition?