Hey V,

Welcome! I assume you are playing on a PS4, but if you are on a PS5 most of these will still apply. You'll just be alone in the rankings until others join in. There are a few things that you can do that may not be obvious, but I'll go through most things to be somewhat thorough:

Set-up

• I have not tested all the different swing types, but from what I can tell they are purely aesthetic. I know some of the other runners use the one that has the short backswing, but I personally use the first one they give you and don't seem to have too much trouble
• make sure that all of your club stats are maxed (or almost), because if you are in the middle of a great/fast run and you get a bump to your power rating, you'll have to wait through the 3-5 seconds of upgrade graphics
• the best custom club that I have been able to get is 25 Power and 2 Control (27 out of a possible 33); you will want power more than anything else because it shortens the courses (especially Imperial Gardens, which is a fairly long course). And less swings generally means less time
• you can use any type of ball for the run, so I would suggest picking one that makes it a bit easier on yourself (whether that is grass cutter, sand viper, or triple impact). I like grass cutter because I tend to end up in the rough more than a trap (and a perfect impact doesn't fix all that), but it's a personal choice for how you play and what you think works best. Do note that Triple Impact balls are the rarest to find (I farm them by fishing, but that takes a while)
• I'm told an SSD is the superior way to run any game, but I have not upgraded my PS4, so I can't vouch for it

In-game

• obviously, the faster you can mash the X after an impact, the better; you don't need to watch it if you're trying to go fast
• this goes for putting as well, where it saves literal milliseconds if you hit the impact in the red when putting and I've never seen a putt veer off course because I hit the red impact. But again, it's only a very marginal time save
• at the start of every hole, you can move before the first input 'reads' so you can better place yourself without it actually taking any time
• in general, you don't want to get a chip-in from the edge of the green because it includes an animation after that is about as long (if not longer) as simply doing a second shot. Some folks (like Sparky) putts from just off the green pretty well, which does not count as a chip-in but still gets you out of the hole fast
• unless you think you can get a genuine time save by cutting the course (hole 12 on Alpina, for example, which is the easiest Condor in the game), I would suggest against it. It is almost always faster to simply take the placement (or close to it) that the game gives you as opposed to stopping and moving the cursor to the perfect place that will get you closer to the pin. It won't matter that you hit it far if you go OB or in water because you'll be hitting that shot again. Of course, if you make it, then it can be a help
• same as above, unless the green includes a hard slope, you should take pretty close to where the game starts you. It's a calculated risk about how much time you tinker with setting the swing and getting it in the hole. For example, on a 20 foot putt, if it takes you 1 seconds to set the swing, 2 seconds to swing, and 2 seconds for it to get to the 2 feet from the hole (which you can get in the hole in another 3-4 seconds) as opposed to taking 5 seconds to set the swing, 2 second swing, 2 seconds for it to actually get in the hole, then it can be worth it, but then you better be sure you get it because if you miss after setting the swing for 5 seconds, then you'll have added a bit by comparison (though, I don't know anyone who takes that much time would think they are going to miss, but it happens)
• for putting, it takes time to master, but you can generally over-hit the power and still have it go in the cup. It's better to go a bit too far that wonder if you'll end up short (of course, with the caveat that you don't hit miles past)

Hopefully that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. Good luck!

All the best, Willis

It should be done; I just finished updating all the settings and times with notes about real time in the run comments. Now I just have a backlog of runs to verify (though mostly Sparky taking his PS5 runs off that he can resubmit).

Ok, that took longer than I had planned and it's almost 1am. So, there are categories for each individual course as well as all courses (mirrored and not) that includes both a PS4 and PS5 category. So feel free to submit those PS5 videos.

I'll get to editing the times on past submissions tomorrow. Happy golfing!

Yeah, I don't have any video editing software - you get what you see straight from the PS4. So, I'm mostly just looking at the time that appears in VLC/Youtube and making that my time. Good to know I could be more precise about it.

I like your idea of grandfathering in Charizard517's runs but also stipulating that to avoid any difference in the future. That way 'Offic' appears and we know it's the real deal as a shorthand. I'll make those changes a bit later tonight.

Thanks for all this language. I think it's helpful to be more specific/precise than the current rules state. I do prefer the 'game time' rules as they seem to be a bit more precise and allows for someone to take a brief breather between each course in the full runs (as opposed to being punished for not being as good at running from the load point to the Solo Stroke Play computer in the main plaza).

I do wonder about the exclusion of Multiplayer and only accepting Solo Stroke Play. I'd have to do some more testing, but from my cursory first look it did not seem to affect timing all that much (advantage or disadvantage). If you notice anything, I'm happy to consider. But either way I do agree that we should stipulate whether that is allowed or not. It seems to be fine since I can see the 'rules' listed at the top at the start of a run. But it might be good to standardize it.

Thanks for the re-times.

I suppose I should have been more cognizant of the lack of VOD for CR4ZYeyes runs, so thank you for pointing that out too.

As for Charizard517 runs, I looked at the video and it seems that it was done as a Multiplayer Stroke Play run as opposed to Solo Stroke Play. The 'rules' are visible at the top (0:18) stating that it is Alpina Forest, 18H stroke play, Regular Tee, Normal Cup, Clear (Eve), Standard Wind (the quality of the video isn't great, so it's hard for me to make out those last four, but this is my best guess for what they say). I went back and played a round with Multiplayer (with me as the only participant), and it did not seem to change the timing of things significantly. But from what I can tell, that is the only reason it is considered 'Unofficial.' But I might be missing something; so if you notice, please let me know.

All that being said, we can set the rules to be whatever we want. And if we decide 'Offic' (Solo Stroke Play with the 'normal' cup or smaller) is required, then we can stipulate that in the rules. I can go back and change all the times for the submissions, and I'll respond in the other thread for updating the rules about this.

And I will add separate categories for PS5 so you can do that. And I'll get around to that whenever I get one (your runs look so nice compared to my PS4!).

I don't think it needs to be outlawed or anything. I can create separate categories for PS5 if we think it's worth it. That's not a big deal to me. I've seen plenty of other games with categories featuring a single entry based on difference in hardware.

I can see that you enjoy playing and do it well; and it's nice knowing other people do that with a game I love. And I'd like to acknowledge that rather than omit it. On that note, I don't mind not having the top time because of hardware. I understand that is a reality of the situation. But if it bothers you (or others), then I'm happy to create separate PS5 categories for the various courses/full runs.

I realize now that I didn't even answer the question about timing. I guess I got a little carried away on the viability of a PS4 vs PS5 loading times...

I would be fine with timing things with your second method as that is a bit easier to manage, and it's a bit more precise if we want to get a little closer to parity. I'll leave this question open for the next week or so before moving ahead with the changes.

Thanks for all the input and info. I was curious to see the difference in real time and the two game time options, especially because they had such marked difference in time despite our scores being nearly identical. For example, the Idea 2 timing of Eagle City shows a difference of 45 seconds, even though you only shot one stroke better than I did. Granted, shots taken does not necessarily equal time taken, so I looked for a different way to assess it. So, I went to hole 3 of Eagle City and checked the first shot on your first video and my own run (note: I have not looked into your new runs yet, but that's what I'm doing after this).

Your timer from the moment you control the character to the beginning of your second set-up is 1:10 to 1:18 - eight seconds. My timer goes from 0:54 to 1:04 - ten seconds. I assure you that I am mashing just as fast as I can (as are you, I'm assuming), which should take me directly to my second shot regardless of where it lands. I checked the second shot as well: Yours 1:18 to 1:25 (7); mine 1:04 to 1:12 (8). I thought perhaps it was backswing, but given the standard timing of the cursor tick up and back that came out to the same time. The putt is the same at 5 seconds for each of us (1:25 to 1:30 and 1:12 to 1:17, respectively). That's only a three-second difference for the hole, but it continues on other holes. It's the same on the fourth hole (your first shot to second set-up - 1:33 to 1:41; my first shot to second set-up - 1:19 to 1:29). Fifth hole first shot to second set-up - you, 1:54 to 2:02; me,1:43 to 1:52. Second shots seem to have a similarly consistent one or two second difference (mostly on par 4 and 5 holes). The sixth hole is more of the same, so I assume it continued though I admit I did not check the entire run.

Just from the first shot on holes 3 through 5 show a difference of five seconds. I went back and tried without moving at the tee box before the shot (which I do on most holes) and found it did not change the time. And even if my running around the tee box added time, it should not amount to two full seconds per hole. Also, the additional second or two on each second shot increases a PS4 time, without the benefit/detriment of moving around the tee box.

Long story short, it seems that PS5 load times affect the between-shot loading as well as between hole loading, particularly on first and second shots on par 4s and 5s. It's not significant on any given single hole, but it accumulates over time. Assuming a uniform two second advantage in each hole (which, as I mentioned, I did not test fully), that amounts to a 36 second difference without any disparity in shots. Like I said before, I'm happy to keep them in the same category as it feels like overkill to create an entire new section/category for PS5 runs. But from what I can tell, there is no way for a PS4 runner to get close to a PS5 run, assuming similar scores and button mashing between swings.

This is an open question: should we set separate categories for PS4/PS5 since the load times are significantly reduced and there is no way that the PS4 times can compete with a PS5?

I don't feel strongly either way. I don't know the usual process or thinking that goes into this kind of thing for other games, but since we're a small community we can chat through it.

I guess the argument is that because it is such a small community it wouldn't make a ton of sense to split it. At the same time, there isn't really a level playing field simply based on system hardware. Thoughts?

Sure, I can add them sometime soon. And thanks for the note about Imperial Garden. I made that change.

I submitted some runs for Everybody's Golf (https://www.speedrun.com/Everybodys_Golf) about a month ago, but they have not been verified (or rejected). I tried contacting the game moderator CAMfidence (https://www.speedrun.com/user/CAMfidence) through Twitch, Mixer, and Discord (his Twitter does not allow DMs) a couple weeks ago, but have yet to receive a response. Would I be able to get verification/moderation privileges for the game? Or would someone else have to do it? Thanks for your help

Thanks for letting me know. I have updated my profile with the social media accounts. Let me know if you need anything else from me.

Hey, I just wanted to see what the process would be to get a new moderator for Everybody's Golf? The current moderator has not logged on in eight months, and when I tried to contact him through Twitch and Mixer (his Twitter doesn't allow DMs), he has not responded. Would someone else need to be willing to moderate? Or would it go to a general moderator? I'd be willing to give it a go, though I've only been a site member for four weeks. I can't imagine there would be too many runs to verify (though it's hard to tell with a moderator who has been away so long). Thanks for your time and help.