GreeceHey everyone, once again writing on behalf of the mod team. Similar to sentiments echoed in previous discussions, we always attempt to make changes to leaderboards to support community needs. Recently, in our discord, there has been conversation about the Definitive Edition of Grimm Eclipse (released for the switch), and how it falls in line with other versions of the game. Over conversation between runners, certain points have come up that needed addressing, especially whether or not the Definitive Edition belongs on the same leaderboard as the original game. Thus, we will have a special community vote on this issue, that will be quite important for the leaderboards going forward.
What this is not: This is not a discussion about hardware. While the switch has the worst hardware and it does affect performance, this is not a discussion on leaderboard separation due to hardware. It is truly impossible to moderate hardware and settings in Grimm Eclipse, because even the same computer could have different FPS in-game if you switch to using a monitor with different refresh rate. While in the ideal world there would be some type of distinction, it is unrealistic to separate things like control schemes and ways to hold controllers, which can affect APM as much as FPS in certain cases.
What this IS about: This is a discussion about software. The question is whether or not, the product titled “definitive edition”, is a separate game. The game is published by a different publisher (Farbridge), and developed by a different studio (aspyr). It adds content (in the form of cosmetics and gamemode - local multi), it features patch specific changes (major ursa in gauntlet, no longer available on other version of the game), and most importantly it changes the fundamental way of how the game is played, by changing the counter and interact actions to be one of the same.
Due to the length of this post, some arguments for both sides will be posted as a follow up comment on this forum (speedrun.com did not allow me to post everything in one post).
Due to the importance of this topic, the poll for this topic will be slightly more constructed than previous ones. While anonymity will remain in terms of votes when results are shared, we will ask that the actual vote is not submitted anonymously (you will see the form ask for your src name). Due to the serious implications of this decision for the leaderboards, the voting will be limited to runners (any individual who has submitted a speedrun to the main boards or category extensions is allowed to participate) so we will need to verify there is only one vote per runner.
Thank you for taking the time to review the post. We encourage further discussion in this forum. You can place your vote here: https://forms.gle/gJSuA1sez6CGmRKN6
The form will be open until 5/21/25 11:59PM PDT
Hey everyone, I am writing on behalf of the mod team. As always, we try to make changes appropriate to community sentiment. The issue of using gvk’s mod to select Horde/Gauntlet lobbies recently came up, and we wanted to have a community vote on how we should move forward. To clarify, this involves accessing said lobbies through the “single player” option during a speedrun that requires entering said stages, something that is not normally possible without the mod.
As a reference, here as some arguments that have been presented regarding both sides:
For allowing:
- Makes it so the single player version of these categories are not reliant on internet connection to set up lobbies (this can be argued to make the category more accessible to those with worse internet)
- Makes it so you do not have to worry about friends joining the lobby during a single player run of those categories (this has no effect on multiplayer runs which retain the issue)
For banning:
- This menu provides an objective advantage in the speedrun that is only obtained through external manipulation of the game (not replicable on a vanilla copy). This would also mean that everyone would have to download and use the mod, since there is currently no known downside
- Not available on other platforms such as Playstation/Xbox
This is just a summary of some recent discussions, so we encourage users to contribute to the discussion by posting their opinions in this forum.
Please vote in the following poll to decide how we should proceed with the single player Horde and Gauntlet categories going forward.
https://strawpoll.com/X3nkPDeBKgE
We will tally the results of the poll on 5/21/25 11:59PM PDT
Hey all, the LB has been offficially created. Please post here with any suggestions or discussions leading up to the release of the game next week.
To avoid emulation issues, and provide accurately emulated runs, the rules have been updated with some required emulation settings.
WR runs will need to show emulation settings starting today.
During his most recent run submission, MrLee64 submitted a spliced run.
Evidence of the splice is mainly found in the final two combo challenges, were a set of inputs briefly appears before the challenge is performed "first try" indicating that the challenge had been previously attempted in both cases and had been edited out of the video.
I covered this in a video here to also show in real time the video that was submitted, and a comparison to what it should look like in-game:
MrLee64 will be banned from submitting to our leaderboards indefinitely, and his current runs will also be rejected.
It is sad to see cheating occur in the doa6 space, the doa community is already small and rarely sees as much activity as it has in the past 6 months. I hope this remains an isolated incident in the community, and we all work together to maintain to best community and leaderboard we can.
With the update today there is a new panel added to the all star battle mode. Maybe legacy the current versions (under a msic category) and create a new version for the current update?
Also is there a good reason to separate old file and new file versions of all-star battle? Just curious.
Any chance there could be discussion to change when timer starts in ASBR runs?
The current arcade timer forces you to start when the fight begins, but the player can move the character around before that. The player can also make an input to skip intro cutscenes meaning there is a few things the player can do to go faster before the timer starts according to the rules. I did a run with the current timer and it's super awkward to try to start the timer when I also need to start a combo on top of the things I mentioned above
There's also an issue with LRT, as there is no description anywhere as to what constitutes a load, and some people have submitted rta runs as load removed.
The rules also state a run can't fit into two categories or it will be rejected. Does that mean if someone gets a WR for endless 5 while also getting the WR for endless 10 they can only hold 1 of the two runs? What kind of rule is that, the fastest run is the fastest run...
If I want to do a run on the Capcom Fighting Collection version for the PC, does that belong here or would a new leaderboard be needed?
Pretty much title. Having a gif with so much animation makes it incredibly hard on the eyes to browse the leaderboard.
KingsIsle Entertainment is publicly offering a 20-dollar reward of in game Wizard101 currency for getting a world record in the Wizard101 leaderboard, which has over 100 runners (and an additional 25 dollars to a GDQ chosen charity). After a response to one of their posts, a community manager informed me that such a leaderboard is not considered competitive enough to warrant it being called competitive, and that such world records were attainable at a pace of “5 world records in 2 weeks” and thus trying to justify that someone can earn up to a hundred dollars’ worth of rewards (except it costs them nothing since they are giving out in game currency). They also mocked my willingness to help charity even though I literally have a charity speedrun marathon participation lined up in 2 days.
In order to prove how much of a joke KingsIsle’s approach and attitude towards speedurnning is, I will PERSONALLY match their funding incentive in the Overwatch 2 leaderboards, which have approximately the same number of players as the W101 leaderboards as of me writing this. This means that as a college student I will match the world record incentive of a multimillion-dollar company LMFAO. On the final night of 2022, the world record of each category for Tutorial PC/Console and Practice Range PC (of that current season, all heroes) will “win” and I will donate 45 dollars to the charity of choice of each world-record holder. If you want to help, I would highly request your speedrun includes the words “A world record is worth more than 20$” somewhere on your screen.
This is a personal incentive, and not something sponsored by the mod team. I think it is insulting to value the countless hours and passion people put into speedurnning at 20$ worth of in game currency and I hope to see attitudes like this change in the future.
Copying the requirement form DOA6. From now on WRs will need video proof.
Hey all, Game Brain here on behalf of the mod team. There are a few changes that will be added to the leaderboard so I wanted to make a forum post covering everything.
- Splitting Current Patch Runs From Pre-1.22 Runs
Many time attack runs took place while the game was being regularly updated. After reading over and experiencing changes from patches after August 2019, it is clear that time attack runs are indeed affected. The last patches of DOA 6 focused on universal character changes, changes to game aspects like danger zones, and of course game balance and additional character releases (which further dilutes rng pool).
With all of these changes in mind, as discussed in the community discord, the proper approach is to retroactively create what is effectively a “current patch” category. When thinking about how to properly do this split, it is important to consider the size of our community, meaning it would not make sense to split the old leaderboard into 10 different patches. The solution we will be going with is to change the existing category, to “Time-Attack (Legacy)” in order to maintain the showcasing of old runs. A new category simply called “Time-Attack” will be made to serve as the current patch variant, hosting any run that took place after Patch 1.22 (the last update the game received).
With this approach, we manage to not significantly split the leaderboard, while also allowing the proper emphasis on old runs and current runs. Additionally, any run that has taken place since 1.22 will be manually moved to the new category so the runners don't have to worry themselves about it.
- Video Submission Requirement
To give some historical context as to why full video submission was not required for doa5/6, when the doa5 lb was first becoming popular, the go to version for running was Steam. However, the game requirements were quite demanding and could lead to serious lag when recording the game on weaker computers (not to mention capture card requirements to record consoles). With only an incredibly small group of people running the game’s time attack mode, the mod team back then agreed that image submission was fine, as doa5 also gave you a detailed timecard. Additionally, some runs took place in local tournaments, with runners such as myself encouraging others to try a run, resulting in screenshot proof for a 10th place time making a lot of sense.
It has been recently brought to my attention that it is now possible to use software to manipulate the in game timer. In the past, people were able to hack scores in the in-game leaderboards but there had never been mention of being able to mess with the timer in real time. This creates a need for video proof for runs to become the standard for top times.
When deciding how to change our rules, it was important to keep the original reasoning for not having such a requirement in mind. Thus we will require video proof for world records. This will allow us to keep high accessibility for the game, while also not losing credibility for top times.
- New Categories! Combo Challenges
On the positive end, we have our first new category being added in a few years, Combo Challenges! The category is based around completing a character’s combo challenges as fast as possible, and thus will be split by character. Character specific categories are something that a few people had requested in the past, and this is a way to fulfill that idea while also providing a new and unique speedrun category. We will monitor interest in this category carefully, and potentially also add a command training category in the future.
Just for the sake of consistency among this game and DOA5, I'll start heavily enforcing the rule of requiring IGT split times for each fight when using image proof. This is only for consistent leaderboards and sadly DOA6 provides a much worse final card than DOA5 so something like this must be done manually.
That said runs before this forum post are fine since the rule was barely enforced. If you submit a run that took place on 8/1/19 or earlier it should be good without splits since it's impossible to go back and record them if you haven't already.
Hello everybody,
Starting today, emulating PSP version of BBS will be allowed on the leaderboards. Emulator will be added in as a separate subcategory to the PSP boards to allow runners to submit their times without influencing the original boards. The emulator that will be accepted for the runs is PPSSPP. Since it has a feature for speedup, there will also be a requirement to have the “show FPS” feature turned on for the duration of the run to ensure validity and fairness. We hope this encourages more people to pick up BBS and old runners to try the PSP version of it. If you have any questions about the process, please let us know.
- BBS Mod Team
Hello everybody,
Starting today, emulating PSP version of BBS will be allowed on the leaderboards. Emulator will be added in as a separate subcategory to the PSP boards to allow runners to submit their times without influencing the original boards. The emulator that will be accepted for the runs is PPSSPP. Since it has a feature for speedup, there will also be a requirement to have the “show FPS” feature turned on for the duration of the run to ensure validity and fairness. We hope this encourages more people to pick up BBS and old runners to try the PSP version of it. If you have any questions about the process, please let us know.
- BBS Mod Team
Hello everybody,
Starting today, emulating PSP version of BBS will be allowed on the leaderboards. Emulator will be added in as a separate subcategory to the PSP boards to allow runners to submit their times without influencing the original boards. The emulator that will be accepted for the runs is PPSSPP. Since it has a feature for speedup, there will also be a requirement to have the “show FPS” feature turned on for the duration of the run to ensure validity and fairness. We hope this encourages more people to pick up BBS and old runners to try the PSP version of it. If you have any questions about the process, please let us know.
- BBS Mod Team
Hello everybody, making this forum post for transparency reasons. You may have noted the category split between PS4 and PS4 Pro that just took place and I would like to make it crystal clear as to why this is the case.
One important thing to note, this decision is unrelated to HDD and SSD. Since the hard drive effectively only affects loads, HDD and SDD will continue to remain together.
Now onto the split. As a community there is a consensus that when a run is different in a significant way, it is separated. When this discussion first arose, about 2 years ago, there was little to no knowledge of differences between consoles at the time, and the only real noticeable difference was load times. Hence the decision was made to have PS4 and PS4 Pro under the same category. At the time, this made perfect sense. However, as time passed, and the run became more and more optimized, some key differences began to arise. Many of these can be traced to the game running on 60fps on PS4 Pro, compared to the 30FPS of regular PS4. From shotlocks, to enemy AI, PS4 Pro started becoming a “different” run. Basically, it is currently impossible to recreate strats used in most PS4 Pro fights on a PS4.
With that in mind, a forum post was brought up a few weeks ago, as well as a discussion on the community discord, to give everybody an opportunity to voice their opinions. No major concerns were brought up, and it appeared that most active runners were on board with the idea of a split.
To summarize, I would once again like to emphasize that this split is taking place due to how differently the run plays out due to new information obtained in the 2 years since the original decision to not split the boards. If you have any questions please feel free to leave them below.
General thread to discuss leaderboard status.
Currently things that are being looked into:
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Time attack has more than 5 difficulties but they appear to be unlockable. Currently I can't find any information anywhere as to how they are unlocked, and I myself have only unlocked one additional difficulty randomly while playing versus with friends.
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Story mode takes place in a very weird manner, with chapters/episodes unlocking in what appear to be an arbitrary order. Suggestions are welcome as to how to define it as a speedrun.
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Quest mode is long and tedious. I doubt there would be interest in a speedrun of it, but if so, would it be any star or 3 star? this would need to be discussed at some point.
When this leaderboard was first created, there was major discussion on 2 topics. First, HDD vs SSD. Second PS4 vs PS4 Pro. Both discussions ended in the same way. The leaderboards did not get separated due to the perfectly logical argument that all that is affected is just load times and that the runs are exactly the same. The conversation died out and the 0.2 board remained as it is seen today. However, since then, there exists a major difference, that should have re-ignited the conversation quite a while ago. PS4 and PS4 Pro are actually no longer the same run. Thus, a new situation exists, where technically someone running on PS4 would never be able to recreate a PS4 pro run. Beyond that, many of the the old arguments still stand. While currently there are are no plans to directly change anything, we thought it would be best to open this topic for discussion and see what the community has to say.
