@MisterShwick

This would make more sense if it weren't for Resident Evil Zero HD Remaster. That game provides the same type-based controller schemes and yet the rules do not prohibit button remapping using third party tools.

It should be stated that both games do allow you to keybind freely if you're playing using the keyboard, which only makes the decision to disallow controller button remapping in this particular game seem all the more arbitrary and inconsistent.

@MisterShwick: "so what your saying is..."

No. Nobody is objecting to the idea of using the right analogue stick for stair skating. We're objecting to the arbitrary restricting of any other button remapping besides the right analogue stick. For example, I use the left trigger to run. Why is this prohibited in a category that already permits a specific button remapping, for a PC game, in a series of games for which button remapping is universally permitted on PC?

In case anyone is following this thread - I submitted a run using an altered button mapping besides the right analogue stick a few days ago, and as expected the run was rejected. I did request that the moderator leave a comment in this thread should they decide to reject the run, but as you can see that request has been overlooked or flat out ignored.

Controls can be remapped freely in speedrun submissions for RE1, RE2, RE3: Nemesis and even RE0 on PC. We're only talking about the Doorskip category for the game - the purists still have their venue in the Vanilla category. Additionally, as el_jojoh alluded to, this type of rule could prevent people who can't use a regular controller (or use one in a conventional way) from participating, so the justification really ought to be communicated clearly.

Hey all - it's been a while. I've recently been looking to get back into speedrunning this game in the doorskip category, but I noticed this little nugget in the rules:

"Remapping for analog skating ONLY is allowed."

Presumably this means that you can only remap the right analogue stick to trigger the run command. All other remapping is disallowed, which If true would preclude my participation, as I use a rather unconventional control layout.

Can anyone explain the rationale behind this rule?

Strangely, if I use your exact settings with my Dual Shock 4 and 8Bitdo bluetooth adapter, the end result is actually a turbo-like effect. Check this out:

Notice that I don't even need to rotate the right stick in order to perform the stair skate. During the break in the midde of the video I switch the Layout from Analog Emulation to 8 Way (Overlap), which seems to solve the problem in the sense that the stair skating must be "performed" again by rotating the analogue stick. The wording of the particular rule that would call this configuration into question is rather vague, but I assume this setup (using Analog Emulation) would be rejected.

Has anyone ever encountered this glitch before? I imagine it has something to do with holding the confirm button when you're directly above the door below. I'm going to do further testing to see if I can trigger it continuously and hopefully deduce whether the problem is confined to doorskip or not.

Run button:

Analogue stick:

Ankoku does have a valid point. What was a discussion of the legitimacy of analogue stair skating has somehow ended in a vote over whether to reinstate the door skip categories or not. The result is that people who did not disagree in principle with the use of analogue stair skating in the standard categories are now effectively voting in the opposite direction, i.e. that the technique should be prohibited in the standard categories and instead permitted only in the new category. I just hope that the people who are voting for option 3 are aware that they may be inadvertently voting for option 1.

This would be a very difficult decision to make. I happen to think my technique should be permitted in the standard categories, but at the same time, I would love to see a return of the door skip categories.

As it happens, I don't think it would be appropriate for me to vote on whether a technique of my own invention should be accepted, especially not considering that the outcome could mean that a PB of mine needs to be removed from the leaderboard.

@JayBoneElite

"Xbox 360 and Xbox One controllers are plug and play for REmaster, and if people aren't satisfied with that, they have a keyboard..." "Everyone wins."

I can't even tell whether you're being serious or not now. I am going to assume not. : D

"Seems i was misinformed about not being able to plug and play for RE2 and RE3. The same should apply to that. No need for third party software."

I was more referring to controllers that are not plug and play for HD Remaster. : p

"The reason 3rd party software isn't frowned upon for mapping a controller in RE2 & RE3 is because controllers aren't plug and play, REmaster is. There is literately no need for controller mapping on REmaster."

Are you certain of that, JayBoneElite?

There aren't any hurt feelings on either side, so again there is no need to apologize.

We just seem to have arrived at a situation where the moderators are categorizing the technique as cheating, and have stated their arguments for doing so. The opposition have, I think, comprehensively rebutted these arguments, in particular by highlighting the inconsistency of allowing remapping using the same piece of software for other games in the series and by pointing out that the technique cannot be classed as a macro by definition. Are these counter-arguments not sufficiently persuasive to warrant reconsideration of your position, Lileya?

"My problem with "your" remapping isn't that it's remapping per se, but rather that (if I understand your post and CursedToast's properly) in one single motion of your stick from top to bottom, the game registers 3 inputs : press X, unpress X then press X. I guess if you do it continuously, it's more 2 inputs rather than 3. So you're actually doing 2 inputs for the price of one!

So it's not just your "usual" remapping. You didn't simply remapped X to Y, or B to A, which I personally wouldn't give a crap if you did. It's the fact this specific remapping allow you to input things quicker."

What you seem to be suggesting here is that remapping is legitimate in your view, so long as it isn't being used to achieve greater efficiency. If this is an accurate representation of your position, then my question to you would be: Why else, other than to achieve greater efficiency, would anyone take advantage of remapping?

It would be good to know whether or not some sort of decision-making is going on behind the scenes between the moderators, or whether I'm waiting for a verdict that isn't coming.

@Cosmicabuse

I feel like I've already said enough on the topic for the most part, but I think it's important to specifically address the proposition that remapping the analogue stick constitutes macroing.

It is simply not the case that multiple inputs are mapped to a single keystroke - this would imply automation. If we're going to use the word keystroke then you would have to say that the motion I'm making on the analogue stick issues one keystroke as movement is registered in positive space on the Y axis, one keystroke is issued as the stick passes through the deadzone and one keystroke is issued as the stick exits the deadzone and into negative space on the Y axis. If I, for whatever reason, deviate from this motion then I break the sequence of keystrokes, causing the character not to stair skate at all. In this regard I am fully responsible for maintaining the motion and issuing all of the inputs, placing the technique squarely at odds with the idea of macroing.

@xxshadowxbossxx:

I think the discussion hinges more around determining the legitimacy of control remapping within the context of the existing categories, rather than determining whether control remapping warrants the creation of new categories or branching the existing categories in order to segment the runners who want to take advantage of remapping and those who do not. Granted only a single moderator has shared their thoughts on the matter so far. The general consensus of the moderators may turn out to be that segmentation is a viable solution, though I would be extremely surprised by that outcome.

Let us suppose that segmentation is a viable option and place it adjacent to the two obvious ones: A. Permit control remapping in all categories. B. Prohibit control remapping in all categories. C. Segment all categories (remapping permitted/remapping prohibited).

For options B and C, you have the whopping problem of verification to solve. As it stands there would be no reliable and logistically feasible way of verifying whether a given runner had remapped their controller. Intuitively, requiring a controller input display (such as the one I use in my streams), as you suggested, seems like a possible solution. But in response I should point out that controller display applications do not necessarily capture the physical inputs that are issued on the device. These applications typically capture the converted/remapped inputs produced by programs like InputMapper, and this in itself presents an opportunity for people to game the system.

I submit that the least problematic of the three options is option A, where the problems presented stem merely from our own subjective opinions of how we each individually believe the game should be played. I therefore urge the moderators to permit control remapping across the board and leave the decision in the hands of the runner, just as we surely would if we were discussing any other technique, tactic or strategy that plainly does not transgress into the realms of cheating.

Test Video:

Crypt stairway ascent tests (LiveSplit times):

1. 03:24.86 - 03:28.83 3.97
2. 03:40.35 - 03:44.20 3.85
3. 03:51.73 - 03:55.48 3.75
4. 04:09.05 - 04:12:97 3.92
5. 05:07.13 - 05:10.78 3.65
6. 05:27.61 - 05:31.86 4.25
7. 07:34.86 - 07:38.53 3.67
8. 07:51.16 - 07:54.75 3.59
9. 08:05.96 - 08:09.61 3.65
10. 08:29.08 - 08:33.11 4.03
11. 09:41.08 - 09:45.20 4.12
12. 10:32.11 - 10:35.96 3.85
13. 10:53.54 - 10:57.17 3.63
14. 11:21.25 - 11:25.21 3.96
15. 11:39.81 - 11:43.60 3.79

Quickest: Test #8 - 3.59 seconds

I didn't even consider swapping the bumpers and triggers around for easier quickshots. That is an excellent idea.

"At the end of the day, we just trust runners' good faith. And you are definitely being penalized for being honest. It's a big ironic and unfair for you. But unfortunately, that's just how it is."

Let's hope that the other moderators weigh in on this topic sometime soon in that case. I don't feel as if I can continue running until this is settled without running the risk of having my times pulled from the leaderboards at a later date, should you guys decide to ban remapping. In which case I'll need to set up a controller camera in the event that I ever become half decent at skating using the run button. : p

I'm at my computer now, so I'll take this opportunity to respond with a little more detail.

Firstly, there is nothing to apologize for. I didn't take any offense to either of your posts.

I disagree with the criteria that you're using to determine legitimacy, granted that I'm speaking from the tenuous position of not even being a prominent member of this community, let alone a moderator. Repurposing controls to do things better/faster than you otherwise could is one of the fundamentals of competitive gaming on the PC.

You're absolutely right when you assume that I can't stair skate as quickly as RawDerps by mashing the run button, but I don't accept that because I'm using this technique to my own benefit, my runs should therefore be considered illegitimate. By the same logic, a player who runs the game using the keyboard should be disallowed from rebinding another key in order to enhance/aid their ability to stair skate, or do anything else for that matter. As CursedToast pointed out, I'm still manually issuing all of the inputs required to perform stair skating at this speed. It just so happens that the analogue stick, in my opinion, is a more suitable control to be used for this purpose because it can register multiple inputs from a single movement.

Lastly, I'm wondering if you have fully considered the implications of ruling to disallow the repurposing of buttons. How could you as a moderator possibly verify that the runner hasn't repurposed any controls? If it wasn't for my willingness to share (both on-stream and in this thread), you may never have known that I was using this goofy technique in the first place, and I would have soon been crowned the new stair skating champion. By what measure would you gauge the foul play of would-be button rebinders?

Ultimately, I'll happily accept the final decision of the moderators and will continue to speedrun the game either way. Hopefully I've provided some decent arguments in support of allowing this technique to be used and the repurposing of controls in general.

Questions of legitimacy aside - those measurements that you recorded are impressive. I'll do some focused testing and see just how quickly I can traverse the stairway down to the crypt. I will report back with the results.

For now, a demo of the skate down to the altar:

I should point out that I overcame the right bumper limitation that CursedToast referred to by remapping the RS Button instead. I have edited the original post to reflect this change.