Hello,
Could https://www.speedrun.com/pmw2ce be made a category extension of https://www.speedrun.com/pmw2/ please?
Thank you!
Hey,
Yeah, it can be added. It wont be on the same leaderboard as the arcade leaderboard (for the continue reason that you mentioned making the PS1 version much easier), but I can add that.
Sorry about having the wrong twitter account linked here, I forgot to update it.
Ruse
In my opinion Final Cutscene (stage 9 iirc) and 9th key (stage 21 iirc) are the categories that would make the most sense. Maybe 3 as a misc category or something.
EDIT: if you want my opinion on something and I havent responded DM me on twitter cause otherwise I probably wont notice posts for a while lmao
Hey could you change my name to "ruse_sr" please
Didn't see this thread til now, added 152. When you do some ILs of 189 I'll add that as well (dont want an empty category)
Also, this will (very likely) be the final post that is made on the subject. Thanks.
Posting here once so I can just link this message:
They were split because the amount/size of version differences has made them uncomparable.
When the JP version of the game was first being investigated, the time save caused by the reduction of difficulty was vastly underrated. They seemed like relatively surface level changes (pits in canyon chaos filled, no giant bear at the end of IRR), where it was simply a slightly different version that traded a slightly easier version of the game for slightly worse load times.
With the recent tournament, discussion around JP has come up again, and we have realized just how much easier that Japanese version of the game is. For example, it is near impossible to fail clyde on the japanese version of the game, due to not requiring a second hit because of reduced health. In blinky, the fastest strategy is not only much easier due to only having to land 3 hits on the boss, it is much faster as well. In inky/pinky, it is near impossible to die because of the safety nets added above the platform.
Additionally, entire chunks of some levels (Into the volcano/volcanic panic) are removed. This is one of the biggest reasons why the games cannot be compared.
In my opinion, one of the most compelling arguments for why JP and USA should be separated is based on the times of the top JP runner (Marsh). He has a mid 45 on JP, but is unable to get a run below 48 on the GCN copy of the game. This shows quite clearly the advantage that JP provides, where a player can get a time that would be impossible for them to achieve otherwise, due to the game being much easier. (This is not meant as a personal attack at marsh, its just a real life example of why JP can't be compared with english easily)
The Japanese version provides an advantage which cant be easily quantified. If it was as simple as "load times are 2 minutes faster" then of course all reasonable people would just switch to the japanese version. However, how can we effectively compare them? Do we say "Maybe they wouldnt have died on clyde if they were on JP, so their time is probably around 30 seconds faster?" If you have a player with a 50 on JP and another player with a 52 on english, its impossible to tell who is the better runner. Maybe the JP saved 2 minutes of potential time loss. Maybe not. It's really impossible to tell, and that's why the categories needed to be split.
This is not some revolutionary idea, when two versions of a game have significant differences, they are tracked on different leaderboards: For example, little nemo on NES has different boss patterns, so they are split into different categories. Another game with this phenomenon is battletoads. When games are this different, they cannot be tracked on the same board.
-Ruse and the other mods
Hello all,
After talking it over with the other mods/runners in the community, we have come to a consensus that the Japanese version of Pac-Man World 2 is too different from the English version to be considered the same category/run.
The main/misc categories will be split into JP and USA/PAL versions, and ILs will continue as they were before (Where there are differences between japanese and english, the ILs will be seperated).
Thanks,
Ruse and the other mods
Is that viable for this game? Assuming it would save loads of time on text, but you'd have to memorize text boxes to laugh on for dolphin. Anywhere else that could be problematic?
Way easier to hit the start split at new game, rather than in "the middle" of a level. Also if you time it based on that it ignores how fast you mash to skip the opening cs (but isnt much, but still matters).
There are no maps of pmw2 level (afaik) but you can get something similar by using the free look feature when emulating the game in dolphin.
But getting tokens doesn't increase percentage, so max% doesnt make much sense
It's been 7 days, so the poll is closed. Results below (sorted alphabetically):
Change rules - 11 ahbeef enderlordjamal hypersonic7701 kingmarsh13 lozplyr89 nachobrado pikachulikespie theruseman thewinslinator wallyaldo xsacred_
Keep the same - 3 jellobeaver princerallis robthegamer117
Ambiguous - 3 averagetrey fingerquick walkers
Haven't done run (just so you know i didn't ignore you) - 3 2561first cyberdemon531 joester98
Any way you slice it, majority supports changing rules. If you have any final comments/questions/anything just PM me on skype/twitch/twitter/anywhere.
Will remove runs then lock thread.
-Ruse
I personally think the burden of the proof lies on the runner. For example, if I claimed that I had gotten a 43:20 in PMW2 but didn't provide a video, how are you supposed to disprove it so that it can be removed when I haven't provided any evidence?
"people with runs thgat haven't been proven illegitimate are gonna be removed" Keep in mind that they haven't been proven legitimate either. There is no possible way to prove something is illegitimate if there is no evidence towards it being legitimate in the first place.
Not saying that all runs without video are illegitimate, I just don't believe that the point "runs that haven't been proven as illegitimate would be removed" is very persuasive when those same runs have never been proven as legitimate in the first place.
I see what you're trying to say but I don't think it really holds much sway as an argument.
Thanks for posting your opinion/thoughts/vote either way.
Ruse
@jellobeaver dylans time would be removed as well. Not sure where you got the idea it would be staying
