True, i think you're right. It's not a page we'll update that often, I guess.

I guess you're right, those combinations probably mean it can be hard to find a demo out there - at least online. Maybe they are easier to find offline in some way.

That's strange.. Maybe that's from some other game? Maybe you would just have to search for Ivanoff in your entire disc?

Makes sense. I think it's just something about figuring out what makes sense for the time being - I guess Discord especially makes sense if you need to brainstorm what could be optimized.

Maybe it's worth suggesting speedrun.com, maybe they haven't had a similar case before (despite I don't think so). Or else we have to moderate/edit it somewhere else and maybe copy it now and then or refer to the other page - e.g. a fandom.com wiki page?

I just tried to see if it was even possible, but think the author disabled it.

Exactly! In Denmark we have a magasin called "Komputer for alle" that back in the days released such demos - but doesn't seem like a search for that + "Magnus og Myggen" comes up with anything. I however also guess that they wouldn't publish it anywhere online that they published a new (offline) demo.

Interesting! My first thought was that it was located in my users AppData folder - maybe it's located there instead?

Cool! But doesn't the in-depth analysis and alike belong in the forum? And Discord is only for short-term discussions? I might be wrong, I've only used Discord a bit previously.

It doesn't seem like I can, unfortunately. Maybe you can as a moderator?

Yeah, I've seen that too. I can imagine it's hard to make anything of it without subtitles - and it doesn't even look like it's possible to suggest any. But hope you're right, that he will answer.

I hope so! Lets see when we find a demo.

So a demo within a demo? Nice finding! But it got me to think that we could also be able to find it as a demo within some of those game-demo-bundles from back in the days. I however don't think there will be the full (30 min) trial within such bundle.

Regarding the "figure out what version this is", I was looking through the data that the game saves, when you save your progress. And in the folder [drive]/ProgramData/IVANOFF/MM2 I had a folder called "2.0" containing the saved games - what is that folder called in your case?

Yup, I have Discord. I'm not sure what makes sense for discussions, but it's at least faster to chat there - I'll try to set it up later on.

It might also have been the case that the game was just stuck (like the sound-issued we talked about earlier), I don't actually remember. Only think I remember was that I started saving a lot more to make sure I didn't have to start all over again if it would happen again.

Awesome! I think it would be nice to make a guide about it, we can always expand it when we figure out more about the game various versions. I think I'll also try to scan the case-paper in order to get an even better image.

True, I think that's a good option - and even better than a "private" e-mail thread (if he answers). As you've seen, I have already tried tweeting him - fingers crossed that he will answer.

I totally agree. Ofcourse it can be difficult for first-timers, but if all speedruns are "expected" to be below 30 minutes anyways there shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure about the distribution, but maybe there's something written in the terms and conditions of the demo.

What a shame about the demo (which are in Dutch I think). How did you find it? I think we should still keep an eye on if there are any demos available out there. I'll try to ask my brother if he by any chance still have the demo on a PC (depite I think the chances are small).

And now that we talk about versions. My brother mentioned that he once downloaded a demo of the game where the only restriction was that you only had 20 minutes to complete it - so he and a friend just ended up completing it within 30 minutes. And I think he said there wasn't any maze in that version (or else I think he should submit a run 😉) - so I guess it's the same version as the one I have.

Nevertheless I think it would be cool to be able to get a hand on that demo. I think it was around 10 years ago so I'm not sure if he even has the computer anymore. I just tried looking at magnusogmyggen.dk via web.archive.org and it looks like you could download a demo, but unfortunally web.archive.org doesn't have that URL stored. But it's really worth checking that page out - epecially before and after 2006 (I think there was a major change regarding everything at that time).

Nice! I hope so too.. I had some issues running it in Virtual Box (Windows XP), but it worked fine in Windows 10. I did hower have some issues with this games on my desktop PC (also running Windows 10). I e.g. remember it crashing when I used the lever in the clock tower before S&S was shocked, but I never figured out why - I just assumed it was because of Windows 10. But that's a completely other story.

I've done my best for taking a picture of the case: . I think there's two things that's worth noting (other than the new "frame" in the front as mentioned earlier): The fact that it's copyrighted in 2006 (it matches the file-date, so I guess it was released in 2006) and the "Production number" (below the barcode): MM2-01-06-DA. Maybe there is a MM2-01-06-EN from 2006+?

I btw also found and English version since I was curious too - I've ordered it and will get back to you what version that is. Maybe there is somewhere we can collect all the various version (and how to distinguish between them) so it's easy for others to figure it out too? Only problem about doing it here is the missing ability of uploading images, but then we might just use e.g. imgur for that?

Agree, it's a shame - but I think it's the best solution. But I hope more will try it out so the list will keep expanding. I didn't know about it until a few days ago, but I hope more will know about it in the future.

And about why they did it. I actually thought about writing the creator(s) an e-mail and try to figure out why and what different versions there are - maybe there are also a 1.0? Fingers crossed that they will respond.

Thanks for trying it out - funny we had the same thought! It makes sense it cannot handle it.. But it's a bit interesting that it didn't crash if you only removed some of the files. But then we know you cannot simply convert version 1.1 into 1.2.

That's understandable, I can't wait to get my hands on the older version to see if there is any difference - and if it works on my Windows 10 laptop. I found out my brother has our old version, he will try to mail it to me.

I can try sending you a picture at some point when I get back home. I'm however almost completely sure it looks like this: http://www.playright.dk/info/titel/magnus-+-myggen-den-store-skattejagt (I think they rebranded all the M&M/S&S games at some point since I've seen more games in the series with that "frame" style). I'm however sure my version is in a DVD-case (whereas I know my old game is in a CD-case). Btw, let me know if I can help - it might be easier to find in Denmark secondhand.

I'm now almost 100% sure this version doesn't have the maze included. I tried re-installing the game, but there wasn't any options at all. And I have then tried extracting the data-files (InstallShield compressed Archive files) that was on the CD, but it seems like the LAB-files wheren't to be found anywhere. So maybe version 1.2 just doesn't have a maze.

Regarding how to deal with the difference I think I personally favour the HL2 model. I don't know Super Mario Odyssey enough to know if there was a major change in the versions but it sounds like that's the case for HL2 - just like it is for Skipper and Skeeto 2. If we only had one list it would never make sense for people to choose the maze version (unless they ofcourse only had that version) which I again would think would be a bit of a shame since it's a big part of the original game.

Btw, I thought a bit about.. What happens if you rename your lab-folder? Does the game crash or simply just skip it?

Nice finding! It's true, a lot of the comments state that - including the person uploading it. On top of that some other comments that there was a glitch in the kitchen so you could Magnus/Skipper appear more than once. (I believe that won't make a difference in a speedrun, but it's a whole segment (glitches and alike) that would be worth investigating too.)

I'll try to look into the install options. When I'm playing it, I do it without the CD so it might be something related to what you say - I do however think I picked "full" since space wasn't an issue. And I'm at my parents house right now, so I hope I can find the old game here too.

Yeah, might be something with a different leaderboard/category - it could be interesting to figure out what others have done, I do however not atm remember any other games that could have a similar case. Maybe it's worth looking at some of the bigger PC-games with speedruns like Half-Life?

On one hand I think it would be a shame if we had to remove the maze since it's part of (some version of) the game. On the other hand it would mean all versions of the game would be able to participate - and even if we skipped the last part where you have to hit the skeleton I think that would be okay too since it seems random (as you've also noted in your guide). But I think we should be careful to rush it since it a major thing to remove, I believe.

It would be a shame if we had to split it up in two leaderboards, but on the other hands if there in reality do exist more than one variation it might be the only solution? (I'm not that familiar with speedrunning, so I'm not sure what the "usual" thing to do in such case would be.) And I think it's a good thing to respect the copyright stuff despite it would be easier just to share the various versions.

It is funny that your files are newer than my dat/idx files. But it's weird with the missing lab-files. I might try to look at the install process at some point to see if something is disabled. The maze do stand out quite a lot regarding graphics so maybe it's possible to disable it.

I have btw made a comment to the Dansh guys speedrun, since the title and description makes it clear that it's the version with the maze - so maybe he/she is aware of the different versions too.

That's really nice! I hope I can also participate in some way. I think it was fun completing now, but this is a way it might make sense to keep playing it.

I don't have the lab-folder! But agree, I think the maze would be a weird part to remove completely - since you can get confused about the teeths. On the other hand maybe it was too hard/confusing and the only thing that maybe could be removed? (I don't think you could remove any rooms from the castle without having to re-program the game?) But maybe the fallback was to skip it instead of crashing. This is all the files I have: mm2.dat (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 80.490.872 bytes) mm2.idx (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 17.260 bytes) mm2dk.hlp (edited 04-03-2005 15:01, 62.619 bytes) mm2run.exe (edited 19-02-2006 14:33, 868.352 bytes) UI.ICO (edited 18-08-2000 10:58, 766 bytes) DK/mm2lng.dat (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 104.223.794 bytes) DK/mm2lng.idx (edited 23-10-1997 01:10, 15.612 bytes)

I think it's interesting that the exe-file has been edited in 2006. I'm not sure if the game I have is from around 2006 (I need to check when I get back home again), but I guess so since the file was edited at that time.

I guess it was a simple way to create a game back then - I don't think the budget for a small Danish game has been the largest.

Thanks! I think it's awesome you've put up guides and hints so others can participate easily rather than everyone is keeping up their secrets - and I would love to help if I can (and have the time for it).

I'm also quite puzzled about the maze. I'm quite sure it is somehow meant to be there (we were confused about where also the teeth all of a sudden came from) and I just tried to look into the data-files, there was mentioned the fact that you cannot save while you're in the maze. When showing properties for my exe-file the version number is 1.2.3.1 - maybe that helps?

The mechanics regarding sound and flow seems quite simply so I wouldn't be surprised if they were cut of here and there. When I first tried installing it again I wanted to do it in a Virtual Box (since I've previously have had some issues running the game in a Windows version newer than XP) and it had some issues with the sound - the "funny" part was that the game seemed stuck when the sound couldn't continue - I guess the game waited for the sound to complete? (Regarding the maze, I skipped the Virtual Box again - I experienced the missing maze when playing via Windows 10)

I've known this game since I was a little kid and recently tried it again - and I enjoy it so much!

Now that I'm older, I started thinking it would be fun to see how fast I could complete it, and luckily I stumpled upon this page. It was fun watching how fast it could be done - and I still think about doing it myself.

I was however a bit confused when I watched the speedrun by at least Tiltustratel - since there was a maze that for some reason is not i my (Danish) version of the game. When some versions enters the maze mine simply skip directly to the "Final hit". I think it might be because mine is a newer version of the game, but I'm not sure. I do however remember the maze a bit from back when I was a kid (I'm however not sure if it was the same exact CD as I'm using now - if it is, it might be some config?).

Furthermore I think it might be worth considering if it possible to figure out the difference between the Danish version and the English version - one of them should in theory be faster to complete since the sound-pieces simply are shorter.

But it's really cool you guys have been speedrunning this awesome game!