Forums  /  Super Metroid  /  Advice for 50:xx KPDR
  precooked

Hello, new here.

Started running SM on my snes classic about 2 months ago as a hobby. Landed on any% KPDR as 100% just seemed so tedious. I've gotten fairly competant at it with a PB of 56:08:4 and a BP of 54:17:7. Average completed run is about 58:xx:xx.

So that being said my goal is to be able to achieve a 50:xx:xx and would appreciate if anyone can help me find some time saves and answer a couple questions for me. I'm gonna ask a few then post up my splits and hope someone can tell me where I need to improve to shave off 6 minutes. Currently running 21-23%. I grab kraid tank if im minus in my splits and sometimes accidentally get moat missles in ocean fly attempts. Standard run is 4 tanks 15 missiles 10 supers and 5 PB's.

question 1: how much time does ocean fly save vs 2 spark method? Is it worth it?

question 2: Is a single X factor a time loss on Ridley if you have plasma?

Question 3: How much time does baby skip save with a 6 jump method? is it worth it?

Splits are my PB using FramePerfect:

Bombs: 5:12:6
Varia: 10:35:4
Power Bombs: 17:48:4
Gravity Suit: 23:44:8
Botwoon dead: 27:21:2
Ridley Tank: 41:43:4
Finish: 56:08:4

 
  Melonax

Hello~

So I currently have a 51:12, not quite a 50:xx:xx but close anyway. My times, for comparison:
Bombs: 5:02 (-10)
Varia: 10:24 (-11)
Power Bombs: 17:22 (-26)
Gravity: 22:57 (-47)
Botwoon dead: 26:16 (or well thats when I leave the room) (-1:05)
Ridley Tank: 37:28 (-4:15)
Finish: 51:12 (-4:56)

Note that my early game up to powerbombs was REALLY good compared to my usual times (which are similar to yours!). I took 5 tanks, 20/10/5, no baby skip (I don't attempt it). My own major time saves are currently on Phantoon and Tourian assuming I don't drop any items or learn baby skip.

Answers to your questions:
1. Barely any time, not sure how much, and if I'm correct it wastes more health which you may need especially if skipping kraid etank. I'd say not worth, since it's easier to mess up baaad (falling into moat), unless you really like swag.
2. Yes, because you'd have to go into the pause menu twice (to turn beams off and then back on) which takes time, plus it may lag the game a little (not sure). If all particles hit that would do 1200 dmg, a plasma shot does 900. PLUS if you mess up the x factor, you won't be able to shoot until the particles are gone.
3. I think baby skip optimally saves about 25 seconds, not sure how many jumps that is. I'm personally saving baby skip for after sub 50, I don't feel its worth grinding down while I can still save time in other places, plus it'd suck to depend on it.

I have a question for you too: do you have a video of your run? It's hard to tell whether your time save is in movement, routing (do you pick up ice early or late etc.) or boss fights without that.

Buttt looking at your times compared to mine... As far as I can tell your early game is really good for a 56:xx. Your times up to powerbombs are similar to what I usually get, at 51:xx. After that you start losing time, perhaps because of boss fights? Learning x factors on Phantoon and Botwoon help a lot, they make the fights a lot more consistent and save ammo. You definitely don't want to spend more than 4 rounds on Phantoon, Botwoon is a similar story. But after that is where you lose much more time. It seems you spent a looooot of time on Draygon? What method do you use to kill her? Shinesparking into her is the go-to method for sure. Or maybe your routing is different after that? Not sure what happens, but you lose 3 minutes compared to me between Botwoon and Ridley etank.

Something to be aware of is that running low ammo/health may actually slow you down because of having to refill more (plus the chance of softlocking or dying to mother brain increases ofc). Running 15/10 is risky, and you can definitely still save those 7 seconds of picking up that extra missile pack elsewhere. Also, any reason why you're skipping Kraid etank instead of Ridley etank? Kraid etank helps with every bossfight after that and makes sure you dont have to farm before bowling or take sloaters refill etc. As said, I still take both tanks anyway (learning to skip Ridley etank now on bad runs).

Apart from the big timesaves on boss fights, Draygon in particular it seems, the most likely way to save time is in movement. Have a plan for every room. Try to make every jump as small as possible (learning ledgegrabs/downgrabs helps a lot). Make sure your walljumps are consistent so you don't fall down and have to try again. Sensei Kipp once told me that the difference between my (then) 1:07 pb and sub hour was 7 minutes of being mid-air, and that still applies now, while trying to improve my 51.

precooked, CanadianOwl and Mumu_Didi like this. 
  UNHchabo

I'm personally a huge fan of taking as many safeties as you need to finish most of your runs. As Melo said, skipping items can also cost you time due to not having enough resources for the optimal strats, or from needing to farm.

If you look at my run history, my latest PB, a 49:22, uses the same item set as my 55:31. They both have 25% item completion, with 5 e-tanks, Spazer, and 25/10/5 ammo.

I highly recommend watching Strat Chat, as it generally covers mid-level strats that you can start incorporating into your run. https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Strat_Chat

While boss fights are important, and can make for a big time loss, as Melo said the movement throughout the rest of the run tends to make an even bigger difference. Saving a few frames on every jump by having slightly tighter ledgegrabs will save way more time than getting individual tough tricks like Full Halfie or Plowerhouse. Or you can learn a faster but still consistent way to go through a non-dangerous room, like Kassiuz Room or Business Center.

On the wiki, you'll find tons of room strats documented on the individual room pages, then you can practice them and see if you can upgrade to a faster strat while keeping your consistency.

precooked likes this. 
  precooked

thanks for the great reply! It seems draygon is my biggest time loss..

you got me there, in my PB i fell into the moat going for ocean fly, then accidentally grabbed moat missles losing another 7 seconds. I was asking because if it saves less then 5-7 seconds I'm going to stop going for it for now.

My route is "optimal" KPDR.. so wave before LN.I use a hero shot with wave to do red tower climb.

I only grab kraid tank if I can get it sub 11, the only use I have found for it is it gives enough health to do a spark on your way back to red, but damage boost off the weaver is almost as fast

I use a 2 charge X factor then 4 missle 1 super to 2 round phantoon, in my PB I got a fast slow pattern but I screwed up my attic spark.

I use a right wall left wall timing to xfactor botwoon but for the life of me I can never get more then 2 to connect, he usually takes me 3-4 rounds.

I have to farm the sandpit for supers before draygon, then I proceed to do a halfie not a full.

Draygon is insert fav curse here. I can never seem to get my xfactor to connect and my sparks like to goof on me, which is wierd because its the only room in the game i struggle with horrizontal sparks. I usually end with blue suite but not always.. also chain damage has taken about 10 pb pace runs from me lol.

I have methods for nearly every room in the game except for "the worst room in the game" where I admittedly take it slow. I know the top tier KPDR runners do a one charge shot method to freeze the right side pirate then lay PB on him but I can't seem to get the timing. I've considered using the PKRD method and using the PB I frames to space jump through the pirates but I haven't gotten it consistent.

I wasn't sure how much damage x factor did to ridley. So supers do double damage to him but xfactors just standard? then I'm gonna stop! probably 15 seconds saved right there!

I get ridley tank instead of kraid just for LN escape. I don't actually need it but it allows me to spark across metal pirate room and damage boost or simply tank a hit off of one of the 3 muskateers. Being able to eat a ketchup is an advantage too.

Unfortunetly I don't have anything to capture my runs, or I would have submitted my 56! my early game is pretty strong, my PB ceres is 1:29 pb bombs is 5:01 pb supers 6:58 pb charge 7:59 pb varia 10:16 but my average varia is 10:30. I slowly add more optimal strats as I go. recently I added a walljump into meridia, a nicely timed jump into the next room (dont know its name) and baby skip. my baby skip isn't consistant but I go for it cause it usually decides wether I can PB or not. My ledge grabs are pretty good in most places except wrecked ship and parlor 2.. damn hjb's lol.

I appreciate your reply! looks like my biggest time saves are going to be on botwoon and draygon. I'm gonna take a watch of your pb and try and take some tips.. and good luck on a sub 50!!

Mumu_Didi likes this. 
  hero_82

I have a 49:56 and I was in the same boat as you so I thought I would offer my $0.02

Sounds like you have some good places to start with timesaves! If you are having problems with chain damage deaths with draygon, it might be bc you are sparking her when she is at low health. The more time you spend in her hitbox as she is dead, the more frames of dmg she can do to you, so the more health she has when you begin contact with her, the more likely you are to leave her hitbox before she starts "killing you back"

As for WRITG, a lot of top runs do use the right side freeze but the WR (KPDR) freezes the left pirate and kills the top right and lays a pb if I'm not mistaken (Jack879) using a charged upshot, then a horizontal shot and then laying the pb above the frozen left pirate. Or you can just freeze the left pirate with an angled shot and lay the pb above him and use iframes to jump through the pirate and the blocks as they break.

Grabbing the Ridley tank is a good idea, but honestly grabbing the Kraid tank also is fine until you're pushing for sub-50 really (most don't drop it until much lower than that even). 5 tanks isn't going to hurt your time (and you can even drop the Ridley tank depending on your health after his drops). Honestly, killing the three muskateers is my recommendation and with practice is only about 1 second slower than hitboxing and tanking them anyway

As for the Ridley fight, in KPDR, charged Ice Plasma Wave only is the way to go. Xfactor does 1200, but involves 2 pauses, supers do 600, but you need them for tourian, and IPW does 900. It's 30 supers and you'll likely only have a handful, and 20 IWP shots.

I've gotten pbs both with and w/o baby skip. Honestly I only go for baby skip when I'm BEHIND pace. Which kinda sucks bc that means in my next run, if I'm near that pace, I have to go for it again. Maybe just save it for when you are trying to save a pb, like when you're like 10-15 seconds behind at g4 (unless your last pb had baby skip. In which case then maybe forgo baby skip on your next run if you're like 30 seconds ahead. No point in losing a run to a failed skip!)?

GL!

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  UNHchabo

Like I was saying about having strat videos on the wiki, there are several available for WRITG: https://wiki.supermetroid.run/The_Worst_Room_In_The_Game

Do the fastest strat that you can do consistently. I do the upward shot now, but until I had it consistent in practice I stuck with the leftward diagonal shot, which is only a second or so slower. If i mess up a faster strat in that room, i can easily lose 8 or more seconds.

As for recording your runs, until you get a capture card or some other way of getting the footage in high quality, there's nothing wrong with recording it with your camera or phone. Cloud9Mitchell does that even with a PB of 43:20!

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  precooked

thanks for all the tips, and I've watched all your pb's and took everything I could from them. Got a new pb yesterday (55:34:00). not quite where I want it but improvement.

Seems it's draygon mostly. I'm having trouble finding the xfactor timing. I have only watched a few strat videos for it but they all seem to use either a 3 tap or stutter 3, I use a stutter 2 for all of my short charges right now. Also I charge my initial spark from the righr side. doesn't help I still struggle to not spark upwards. working on it though.

I noticed a lot of runners skipping ice escape and using croc speedway. Is it a consistency thing or is croc speedway faster?

I'm gonna try and record and submit a run this weekend, I'd like to be on the board haha.

 
  hero_82

You can do a simple two tap for draygon but a stutter gives you a little more room for error. Stutter 3 will help if you are going for a 3 spark kill where you are running under her.

Croc speedway is "technically" faster but cost a pb (unless you farm below ice gates, or in the kronic boost room) and is more consistent if you can get the speed space jump strats. I find the ice escape slower and a bit more technical and for it to be faster, space jump escaping into a machball would be the preferred method over freezing the trippers and machballing. But if your pb count is good and you can do fast pillars then croc speedway is a fine way to go (plus the refill is there before LN).

Also you don't NEED to record a run to submit, but it's nice that you want to. Personally, I wish more folks did so we had less submissions w/o videos, but it's up to you!

 
  UNHchabo

The opening spark can do up to 2250 damage, and the X-factor only adds at most 1200 onto that. So the shinespark is more important to get right, and it can take some practice to get used to the proper positioning and timing to get a full-damage spark, and not just graze her for a few hundred damage.

I put a video on the wiki of the strat that I used to do when my PB was around 53 or 54, doing the opening spark only, then using ammo for the rest of the fight.

https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Draygon#Any.25_.28Intermediate.29

hero_82 likes this. 
  hero_82

don't let BlackEliteJohn see this. . . you can do 2400 damage with a spark, but it has to be perfect - going through all of draygon's hitbox and starting with the slowest speed while she is the closest to you so that you stay inside for one extra frame. I think it has to do with her horizontal speed and yours. lol.

But for all intents and purpose, it's 2250 haha

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  FrenchLightningJohn

too late i did see this FUNgineer, and i'm no longer BEJ hero BibleThump

hero_82 likes this. 
  stealinbread

This thread reminded me I need to get sub 50. 😛

precooked likes this. 
  AlexBascur1

Useful thread to improve my 57 😌 thanks to all for the information.

stealinbread and precooked like this.