NamiNami

The category rules for “Unlock All Characters” say to start on a file with no hidden characters unlocked.

While I believe my current run is evidence that I understand the intention behind it, I’m pedantic and wanted to bring up this exploit in the wording:
You could simply start on a file that had 1000 matches played in Stamina, but no hidden character fights completed and still be legally within the rules as written.

I suggest changing it to something along the lines of “a fresh, empty save file.”

“Unlock All Characters/Stages” shares this flaw.

thetincanthetincan and SukeSJSukeSJ like this. 
  SukeSJSukeSJ

Hello there. Thank you very much. I agree that the wording of the rules can be exploited and we'll be fixing it to make it more descriptive about using an exploit like that. Highly appreciate the feedback 😃

 
  davidvkimballdavidvkimball

@NamiNami Thanks for the catch, and @SukeSJSukeSJ, thanks for taking action to modify it.

While we're on this topic, is using Emulation unfair since it takes less time to load matches? Since it's a VS. match load-heavy run, it seems like either definitions should be setup for what constitutes an acceptable set of emulation properties/settings, or make it console-only.

I'm not saying one way or the other - just wanted raise the question.

thetincanthetincan and SukeSJSukeSJ like this. 
  SukeSJSukeSJ

Interesting. Never really thought about that. Yeah i can see how over 990 vs matches can be a big difference from a RT run when it comes to emulators. Kinda difficult to ban emulators for Category Extensions however since the main part about it is to make it more accessible. And changing settings can be difficult considering every emu run would need to go onto their emulator options and i feel like it could be easily forgettable. Only thing i could think of is having emu runs be in a separate category for RT runs or if we figure out how much emu saves then we can plus that time to the final time. Even tho those aren't exactly good options either.

I will mention this to the other mods tho to see what they say. Thank you very much 😃

davidvkimballdavidvkimball likes this. 
  NamiNami

I’m not sure how close to console it is in terms of loading times, but I know the main page only allows Dolphin 5.0 (stable version). It would be one possible compromise.

On one hand, I understand wanting to stay as close to the original console as possible. However, when such a giant portion of the run is bogged down with loading times, it’s nice to be able to alleviate some of it. By my estimates, Slippi saved nearly 40 minutes in loading times alone throughout it.

I will also note that as far as I can tell, there is no way to turn Cheats off using the newest version of Slippi, and using the in-game option to erase data does not work either, so I had to use an older version of it.

SukeSJSukeSJ likes this. 
  davidvkimballdavidvkimball
(edited: )

@SukeSJSukeSJ I appreciate that - otherwise it feels like @ArahpthosArahpthos and I got unnecessarily punished for going out of our way to play and capture on console. However, I'm willing to hear about any opposition!

Wow, @NamiNami. 40 minutes is significant! A current-version-Slippi-specific unlock all characters run would be WILDLY fast lol.

SukeSJSukeSJ likes this. 
  NamiNami

fwiw if only console was allowed I'd still be number 1. The only reason this wasn't submitted before is I made it before this board existed. I believe I could beat buttercup's emu run on console now as well, but until the emu ruling is settled I'm holding off on new runs.

SukeSJSukeSJ likes this. 
  SukeSJSukeSJ

I see what your are saying @davidvkimballdavidvkimball and yeah if it truly is as much as 40 minutes. Then the only solution really is having it be separate categories or remove emu runs completely.

 
  SukeSJSukeSJ

Quick update. We decided to add an Emulator and Console Variable to each All characters and All characters + stages. Thank you so much @davidvkimballdavidvkimball and @NamiNami for bringing this to light and giving solutions to how to fix it 😃

davidvkimballdavidvkimball likes this. 
  davidvkimballdavidvkimball
(edited: )

@SukeSJSukeSJ amazing, thank you so much! Do you know why the Console tab doesn't show by default? It currently shows an empty Emulator category for Characters + Stages, any way Console could be default?

Edit: I don't know what the etiquette on this is, but it is possible to move the Console runs to the main Melee category, and keep the Emulator runs on the Extensions one? Seems like that would make more sense to me!

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  SukeSJSukeSJ

Reason Emu is default for both is because that's mostly what CE is for. But i do agree that it looks weird with an empty category as default. Also for the edit. I'm not quite sure i understand what you mean cause CE is mostly for people who want specific cheats like C stick and UCF. For both Console and Emulator. If you want however that there should be a category for this on the Original board then i believe this was brought up about 1 year ago and was moved to Extensions for lack of popularity.

 
  davidvkimballdavidvkimball

@SukeSJSukeSJ I guess what I mean is, since these categories are fairly new, I'd love the non-Emulator ones to be listed on the main game category, since it doesn't require any kind of emulations / Gecko Codes / etc. The runs that Arahpthos and I ran were on console, no cheats used at all. And the runs didn't exist over a year ago, since I initiated the first run on my birthday last year in November!

SukeSJSukeSJ likes this. 
  SukeSJSukeSJ
(edited: )

@davidvkimballdavidvkimball Yeah i totally see what you mean and i read the forum post about this on the Original board. It seems Pokemonmaster was down to put it in but it would need more attention to be put on the Original board. So it was put on CE to see if it got more attention. Sadly Pokemonmaster is not a mod here anymore so i can't ask them for their input on this. And i am not too involved with the Original board, at least not yet. If you want the categories to be on the Original board however then i would need to ask the others.

Just to clarify tho. Category Extensions is not only for cheats and emu runs. Yes it's the main focus for it cause of inclusivity. But there can also be "special" Categories that wouldn't necessarily make it into the original board. Like how some games have meme Categories. We don't have really any of those here. But just wanted to say that no cheats console runs can still be on Category Extensions 😃

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  davidvkimballdavidvkimball

Thanks for clarifying, @SukeSJSukeSJ. Completely makes sense. I guess the goal here is I think it would be good to see unlocking all characters + characters and stages being on the main game, since it's fairly straightforward and certainly more accessible than the "All Trophies" category that is currently on the main page.

I'd also like to add that playing on original hardware makes the attempts more notable also. But of course, the decision will completely be up to you and the other moderators.

Thanks for hearing me out!

SukeSJSukeSJ likes this. 
  SukeSJSukeSJ

@davidvkimballdavidvkimball I understand. But i think i see it more like the opposite way. For instance i would argue that instead of moving the "Unlock" categories to the Original board. I kinda feel like All trophies should be on category extensions. Cause when you look at the original board, All the categories have one specific goal. "Play this mode". Events, Targets, Classic, Adventure and All-Star all comes down to playing their selective mode.
Trophies, Character unlocks and stage unlocks you kinda go all over the place. Yes most of it comes down to VS matches but to me that kinda gives away a different feel.

I do see why some people think otherwise tho. And i highly appreciate you bringing this up. It not only helps us figure out what the community wants but it also helps bring discussions to the mod team to paint a clearer picture of what the speedrun board should be, not only for legitimacy and speedrun value but also for fun factor 😃

davidvkimballdavidvkimball likes this. 
  davidvkimballdavidvkimball

@SukeSJSukeSJ yep that completely makes sense. It's definitely odd seeing All Trophies in the main category lol

 
  thetincanthetincan

@davidvkimballdavidvkimball if I had a way to capture my gamecube I'd 100% do my speedruns on console lol, but I'm just gonna stick to emulator since that's what I've got 🙂

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  NamiNami

I’m not advocating for another split, but in terms of optimization does anyone know if the Wii has slightly faster loading times than GC?

I’ve done some searching and found claims that they’re the exact same, that Wii is faster, and that GC is actually faster, but I haven’t seen any rigorous testing and proof of any.