Forums  /  Super Mario series  /  Super Mario 64  /  Webcam Submissions and Reset Timing (Locked)
  GothicLogicGothicLogic

We are introducing a cut-off rule for webcam recordings, banning submission of times that are:
120 star - Sub 2
70 star - Sub 1
16 star - Sub 19
All runs before today will still be allowed on the leaderboard. This is for future runs.

On top of this, a rule for reset timing is being introduced. Reset timing will henceforth be banned, so only use of the power switch is allowed (only applies to N64 runs)
Also, GameShark is not allowed to be used to do runs, whether you have chosen to play the game without codes or not. This means you have to show power on. People were able to use the reset button with the GameShark in which is the main reason reset timing rules are being changed.

kittrzkittrz, JeromeJerome and 2 others like this. 
  xxezrabxxxxxezrabxxx

What do you mean by webcam cut-off rule?

 
  PandaSRCPandaSRC

1. Nobody cares that you're first so stop
2. It means you can't submit a time with the video recorded with a webcam if it's under a certain amount of time. You need to use a capture card or screen capture software (for emu).

 
  Victor314159Victor314159

Let me see if I understand, because I'm not english and the translator does not work.
But if I got Sub 19 in a 16 star, it's obrigatory to have a webcam?

 
  GothicLogicGothicLogic

If you got sub 19 in 16 star, your run needs to be recorded with a capture card, not a webcam.

 
  J_duudeJ_duude

I really think this is a bad rule tbh, like people can have clear video proof but their times won't count is what I'm reading. Who cares if they have a potato cam if you can see the run from start to finish it should be allowed IMO.

4sneKWolFirE4sneKWolFirE, FrancescoFrancesco and 13 others like this. 
  cros107cros107

Yeah, it's possible to record in pretty good quality with webcam. I think it should be based case by case off of the recording quality, not the recording device.

Sharkey91Sharkey91 and J_duudeJ_duude like this. 
  GothicLogicGothicLogic

It is significantly easier to create a fake run when the run is recorded with webcam. It is also impossible to accurately time the run. It's also not clear video if the run is recorded with webcam. Capture cards do not cost that much. People were linking ones as low as $6-10. If you're interested you can read the whole discussion in the SM64 Discord #lobby channel. You'll have to scroll a lot though.

 
  J_duudeJ_duude

Yeah but some do have better quality than others so if you can see an entire run from start to finish I don’t see why they would have to be banned. I’m not worried about cap cards I think if someone has done a run and they have evidence that may not be perfect but contains an entire video, it should be allowed.

4sneKWolFirE4sneKWolFirE, FrancescoFrancesco and 5 others like this. 
  ConkyJoe89ConkyJoe89

In scarcely any game that actually has a competitive community is webcam stuff allowed. I can't think of one other game I run that accepts anything less than a capped video. It's just the way things are. I don't fully agree with it either but we're in the minority. We just have to accept what the greater community wants and play by the rules.

 
  J_duudeJ_duude

I know but it's kind of stupid how I see it. This isn't some Games Done Quick thing where you need good quality to get in. This is worldwide ranking and worse quality doesn't negate the evidence. Someone can do a legit webcam run and it won't be allowed since better quality is wanted. If I were a mod I'd just ask the person if there's any way they can improve quality for future runs and if not why. I'd think it would be even harder to splice a webcam run since you'd have to account for things around, and it would not be much harder to time at all you just see where it starts from where it ends. A run is a run and denying it for the quality anywhere is dumb to me.

Sharkey91Sharkey91 likes this. 
  cros107cros107

Yeah I'm with J_duude, I don't see how it's easier to splice a webcam run. If the sound is recorded with webcam audio it makes it nearly impossible to splice (and make it look legit). It's possible to splice if you don't have sound but the same can be said for a capture card. Also capture cards are cheap, but I heard they can be complicated to set up and it is severely limiting in the kinds of setups you can have. If your PC is upstairs but the TV which you use for playing SM64 is downstairs it makes it impossible to record runs after you have a good enough time. Also GothicLogic, you mentioned it being hard to time, but I can't see how a webcam can give you a bad enough quality recording to give you any significant advantage. Claiming that using a webcam will give you an advantage of anything more than 1 or 2 frames is just absurd.

Melwing17Melwing17 and Sharkey91Sharkey91 like this. 
  Alaris_VillainAlaris_Villain

Well, it's not like we tell these people to fuck off out of the community. If a case like this came up I'm sure that people would be sensitive about it, but it just doesn't happen in practice. For the most part, these hypothetical people without streaming setups just play on emulator.

GoodleShoesGoodleShoes likes this. 
  Alaris_VillainAlaris_Villain

I'll expand a bit on this, I guess. I understand what you guys are saying, but it's hard to feel bad for a hypothetical runner that doesn't represent anything I've seen in reality. If I felt like this had an actual gatekeeping effect I would be against it, but I would be surprised if even one runner is prevented from participating due to these rules.

Webcam footage from what I've seen is generally super low effort, harder to verify (we're lucky if they include splits) and the runners themselves don't stick around. The people that do stick around eventually get proper setups and not cause we bully them to. The vast majority of people that want to run this game somewhat seriously but don't have a console or the means to record just run on emulator. Emulator is extremely accessible as it always has been. In fact I'd say that our requiring of pj64 1.6 has far more likelihood of turning someone away from this game than the rules in the OP.

 
  OmnisesOmnises

I'm pretty sure that's why it's webcam + time. After a person starts getting real times and is becoming more committed to getting better, there's no reason not to order a 10 dollar capture card for good recording quality.

 
  LivLiv

It's easier to splice a webcam run because you could just pre-record your "run" with a capture card, splice it, then play it back on your television and record it (again) with crummy audio and video using a webcam.

Non-HD capture cards are incredibly cheap, and very easy to setup.

PlywoodPlywood and GothicLogicGothicLogic like this. 
  PPLToastPPLToast

I give no shits about the webcam cutoff (and actually find it a good thing), but I'm curious why the switch from reset to power on? Power cycling the console too quick could cause some potential wear on the console. I know dozens of people do this a lot without having seen any ill effects, but anything is possible.