Resident Evil 3: Nemesis Forum  /  Grenade Launcher tool for runs and changes in the moderation of RE3 (Locked)
  uhTranceuhTrance

I don't run this game anymore, but I used to. My view has been, and always will be, if you allow some form of tool to get the same grenade launcher RNG, then you may as well do the rest of the RNG in the game. I'd be all up to some form of category that makes all of the RNG in the game consistent. The GL/Magnum is a 1/2 chance. Getting the powders after train is 1/2. One cycle worm RNG is 1/2. not to mention pharmacy password, evidence locker, music box, enemy patterns etc. to me there's really no point in doing just the GL.

WitchRainWitchRain and RebeccaRERebeccaRE like this. 
  hazebladehazeblade

I posted it in the Discord, but for those who haven't joined it yet, I did as much research as I could to piece together a solution that looks at BOTH sides of the argument, and pays respects to those who have sunk time into the game, as well as looking to grow the community with being inclusive of potential new runners. Feel free to check out the highlight here:

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  [user deleted]
(edited: )

Does the GL tool allow you to fix it to be a magnum as well? If this is gonna be allowed, which is seems like the consensus is, you should be able to grind magnum% as well, should you want to. I know it's not the fastest way to play the game and many of you guys don't give a damn about the category, but you gotta be fair about it. Also, as hazeblade said/suggested, move magnum% back to the main board.

I know I'm not an RE3 runner (other speedrunning priorities mean I haven't gotten to it yet), so some may not have a damn what I have to say, but I'm not trying to give an argument for one side or the other here, just saying that if we're going to use a tool to fix the RNG we may as well allow ourselves to fix it to either option and not damn anyone trying to do a magnum run to the same fate that the grenade launcher runners are trying to avoid.

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  SymmSymm
(edited: )

Yes it would be possible to create a magnum tool if there was a demand for it (There might already be one?).

I think GL/Magnum RNG is slightly different then the rest of the RNG in the game because it is the only one in the game that changes the category you are running. We don't have categories like "any% 2 cycle worm" or "any% early powders". Really the main any% category is "any% no magnum" lets be honest. If you upload a run there that uses the magnum, I would question why you would not just submit it under magnum%.

The GL tool is more for trying to control what category you are doing then trying to control what RNG you get, if that makes any sense.
You are not trying to control the time you get, you are controlling what category you are playing and who you compete against.

 
  [user deleted]
(edited: )

I'm sure one could be created very easily, it might even just amount to changing one value in the GL tool, I'm just saying if you're going to have one you should have to have the other as well. Demand might not exist, but if you're going to allow the mod you should have to make it fair to all the categories since this argument is about choice of category.

 
  kenykeny

If you create a new category called "Grenade launcher only" and use the Grenade Launcher tool in that category, there is no reason to oppose using this tool, and it will be the fastest category of Resident Evil3 I think that is reasonable.

However, I think it is an illusion that the use of this tool prevents frequent resets.

Even under the same condition that only Grenade launcher is available, there are several RNG in Resident Evil3 that can greatly affect the time and sometimes frustrate them.

I hope that the decision to enable the Grenade Launcher tool is based on a long-term view that doesn't sacrifice the gameplay of Resident Evil3.

wolfdncwolfdnc, RebeccaRERebeccaRE and AnacharialAnacharial like this. 
  LivLiv
(edited: )

Forcing GL/Magnum is probably akin to a Cheat Engine script. Same kinda thing that enables randomizers in a lot of these games. It'll just force the locker item to whatever value the GL falls under, if I had to guess. Whenever you enter the room the game will choose one of the random values, so the script or "mod" will just lock the value into being one of the two (GL) after the fact.

Making a magnum tool would really be as simple as just changing whatever value is being forced, into the opposite value (the Magnum). This isn't a mod, it's the equivalent of booting CE, finding the address, manually changing it and locking it in place using CE. Realistically speaking, if the address was posted here for the Locker item, people could do this already without the need for waiting for any kind of mod/script development.

If the view was always 'magnum is a separate category', I don't understand why Any% wasn't renamed ages ago. Going forward it might be better to just do that. Out of all of the things discussed here, "Magnum is a separate category from Any%" implying you can't use Magnum for Any% runs is definitely the most confusing.

allancgallancg, wolfdncwolfdnc and RebeccaRERebeccaRE like this. 
  wolfdncwolfdnc
(edited: )

Hmm this discussion again huh, back then it was voted for no, now I am guessing top tier runners wants less resets so that is why we are having this convo again huh ? When can I get early powders always only mode for nemesis% ? 🙂 ALSO SRT is already "cheating" isn't it? Ain't we accessing the memory of the game to see what we are not suppose to? OMEGALUL

WitchRainWitchRain and MikeGedgeMikeGedge like this. 
  AquacuckedAquacucked

@LivLiv
I'd just like to contribute to your post saying that the current GL tool that is being used by runners doesn't work by forcing locker to contain GL, but it instead scan you inventory for a Magnum and if it does, changes "item id" (or whatever its called) to the one correspondent to a GL (which imho seems way healthier since it would clearly be noticeable on video). To my knowledge, this tool was created by Orchlon over a year ago and he said in his stream that he does not have acess to the source code anymore, so if somehow we'd like to create a Magnum Tool we'd couldn't just edit the existing one, but would have to create it from scratch, but yeah it'd be the exact same code we'd just have to switch the GL id to whatever id corresponds to Magnum.

 
  zenixzenix

Ah, the slippery slope of PC speedrunning.

I understand why some active runners want it because it must be really annoying to get a really good start (basement lol) and just get denied by a such a "flip a coin" decision the game makes.

But again, was ever letting the SRT with health bars and all the fancy shit fair to begin with? I don't know but in any case an "easy" solution would be to create an unique category for the mod and that's it.

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  TamsterTamster

@MoeMoe_7MoeMoe_7 this thread should be already blocked, i mean, there's a google form, there's nothing to say here, if someone wants to talk about this, they can go to the re3 discord.

 
  WitchRainWitchRain

I don't run RE3, but I do plan on running it in the future. Just throwing this out there, why not make a sort of "tournament mode" category where RNG is fixed for everything and then just leave Any% as it is? Then you'd have your competitive category, and your "untouched any%" category, so to speak.

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  jakefsomenumbersjakefsomenumbers

@WitchRainWitchRain mainly because none of the active runners or potentially active runners such as myself want the rest of the RNG to be effected. the adaptation to the RNG in a run is what makes re3 unique as a speedgame. the main goal is to just eliminate monotonous resets

William_NevesWilliam_Neves likes this. 
  uhTranceuhTrance

i agree with witchrain's statement completely. makes total sense to have that category

kenykeny likes this. 
  wolfdncwolfdnc

@zenixzenix Exactly my point people that say they don't want this because "cheating" but they use SRT is a big LOL as that already is cheating, and making another board is not what they want, the purpose of this is for the top runners to get WR faster and in less resets that is needed.

 
  DchapsDchaps

Haven't posted here since the last fiasco we had over this but I don't mind recompiling the 1.3 build I initially proposed if that's the way the scale swings.

I believe there is a Memory based tool out there already floating around, and I to have noticed its been in use for quite some time already..
The difference with my implementation was simply manipulating the games if/else logic in the STARS room
and actually changing the item before its obtained, its not an inventory memory hack, or even memory related at all.... There is a significant difference between editing memory values in RAM and manipulating the games actual source code before its even processed, felt the need to make that more transparent =]

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  OrchlonOrchlon

Having all the RNG locked would be boring and take away what makes RE3 a great speedgame. Most of us just want the GL RNG locked because it's stupid, boring, and causes unnecessary resets. Every other RNG in the game is fun to play against. If the stars office had the GL every time, but there was a room before it filled with hunters that with good execution caused runners to lose on average 50% of their runs, nobody would be asking to mod it because it would be fun RNG to play against, even if mathematically they would be equivalent.

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  kenykeny

I think @ WitchRain's opinion is very reasonable.
I think it would be better to clearly distinguish between categories that controlled RNG and categories that did not control RNG at all.

Is GL only the problem? Is it possible to say that you've never had a rough voice saying that this game is shit with a time loss in RNG other than GL?

wolfdncwolfdnc likes this. 
  kenshireandokenshireando
(edited: )

I'm not a RE 3 runner, but i watch a lot of RE 3 runners and i'm familiarizaded with all this thing of the GLtool, and my question is, why not make a "GLtool" category? that way the Any% would remain intact, and those runners who want to make a more faster run of the game can migrate to the new category.
Many people argue that the problem is that the magnum its not a viable option to do a good time in the game, but i think this is due to how the runs where optimized in all this time; before a magnum would be a option, but not now because the runs must be very optimized to get a good time, but the same can be say about others RNG; i think this are the consecuenses of optimizing much the times of the game.

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