Question about categories
7 years ago
United States

Why isn't "any%" the fastest category? Can someone explain how and why "any%" is restrictive?

PeterAfro, f1 and 9 others like this
Germany

Good questions.

mishrak109 likes this
United States

Wish I could say the same about your answer.

Crockey, Zanbamon and 2 others like this
New York, USA

Here's the opinion of one guy who doesn't play the game yet: If you're going to have two categories for Any%, it should be Any% and Any% (Glitchless) instead of Any% and Any% (Glitched). The way the latter comes across is that it's the same thing because Any% should be all inclusive and Any% (Glitched) would include what Any% should already include.

United Kingdom

Super Metroid is so badly broken during the any% glitched run and barely covers any of the game. You literally make a beeline to xray then back to the ship, go out of bounds straight to the finish in a little over 13 minutes. Although it's nice to speedrun occassionally, I for one wouldn't want this category to be considered the 'main' category. Therefore the 'main' any% category is any% nmg, referred to as any% for short.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Germany

I was flippant in my reply earlier, because I was relatively certain you weren't being earnest either. Super Metroid has had a lot of controversy and arguments over naming conventions and categories, and has been that way for a very long time. Believe me when I say, you're preaching to the choir. I could go into pretty long detail and depth for the history in the current naming scheme we have for the different categories, but the long and short of it is: this was the compromise we made.

United States

That doesn't really mean anything though, foosda. That's like calling a run that gets 78% of the items 100%. It's factually incorrect. Should we allow things that are factually incorrect just because a "community" of people don't understand the English language? I don't run the game, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Calling a run the "any% world record" when it is slower by 30 minutes is factually wrong and misleading. It also makes no sense. If I'm preaching to the choir, then change the category names.

New York, USA

Don't be afraid of change, gentlemen. Don't get hung up on keeping something named a certain way just because that's the way it's always been done. It would probably take all of 10 seconds to change "Any%" to "Any% (NMG)" and it wouldn't negatively impact anyone's life in any way. No riots, no sounds of sobbing speedrunners, no mushroom clouds in the distance. Everyone would go on living their lives as they had before, the only difference being that a few people are slightly less confused about one particular thing. Give it a shot.

Crockey, Really_Tall and 2 others like this
Palau

Who is it that's hung up? Cyber posts this "english language" crap everywhere. Yo demon, I looked up "any%" in merriam webster and it didn't tell me jack.

Language is understood or misunderstood. Language itself evolves and mutates, it's not inherently factual or not. Do you respond to "hey dawg" with "I'm not a dog, I'm a human"?

Do you understand our language?

This is a silly argument. The fact of the matter is this - I have NEVER had someone new to speedrunning complain to me about not being able to understand our categories (the key word here is "complain"). I don't even remember the last time I had to explain it.

Why does the SM64 community use console instead of VC if it's slower? Why does the oot community put VC and obscure chinese emulator runs alongside console runs? Personally, I think original console runs should be prioritized, but you don't see me butting my head into these arguments.

The categories are named this way because of how the speedrun evolved. We had a big SUPER METROID COMMUNITY discussion about it at the time. If it's going to be changed, I think somebody with decent standing in the community needs to bring it up and actually make sure as many relevant people as possible are present.

I was informed by overfiend after the fact about the decision to put our times on here. He said the community had decided on it, and I said "the community?" because I knew a lot of the old guard probably wasn't involved. But I didn't say anything else, cause it's not a big deal. But I do think if sr.com would simply link to stable and established community leaderboards instead of trying to co-opt everybody, then maybe they wouldn't have gaps in their game list...

It's not that I don't care about other people's opinions. But, for example, do I think Garrison should have more say in this matter than cyberdemon? Absolutely.

You won't find me arguing against anybody who calls it NMG. Deertier calls it NMG. The categories are correctly described on SDA's SM page. If there is a definite consencus and push in the SM community to title it NMG, I'll go along, but honestly I don't think I really care otherwise. And I'm definitely not going to bother renaming my old vids or lobby others to change what they call the category.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
eHolden, Jighart and 10 others like this
Palau

@stealinbread

If you made a list of things that actually alienate casual observers from speedrunning, I'm pretty sure naming conventions would be a factor of such extraordinarily low impact that it wouldn't be worth listing.

United States

http://puu.sh/sTuKF/6b667f8e90.png http://puu.sh/sTuK5/09c2f15da4.png

Not too hard. It's in no way a silly argument. I could buy the evolution of language if it was with every game in the community, but it's with this game. Dawg vs dog is not an equivalent argument at all. Nice try, though (not really).

As Crisco said, it would cause no negative impact toward anyone, and only cause positive impact toward newer runners. That's literally it. You don't have to rename vods, that's just silly. The fact that you even debated this is quite honestly hilarious. It's such a one-sided and objective standpoint that I cannot see how anyone could possibly generate any sort of counter-point besides a useless strawman (like you did with random n64 games no one cares about).

Just change it to NMG, or Any% NMG or whatever. It only has pros, and no cons. It's not hard, and it will make people take you more seriously. There's literally no possible reason not to.

If it were up to me, I'd rename the main category Any% Glitchless and rename the other one to Any%. But it's the community's decision at the end of the day.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
YUMmy_Bacon5, Gaming_64 and 3 others like this
United States

The main category isn't glitchless, though. So, that's why it should be No Major Glitches instead.

United States

So far, it seems all 3 people who speedrun the game say "yeah it should be changed but the 'community' doesn't want it to".

So, as far as I can see it's agreed that the rules are stupid and it's based on "tradition" and people want to change it but are afraid of angering some invisible members of the "community" even though they're objectively incorrect.

Why should people tolerate something that has no upside? What's the advantage? Why won't anyone answer this question? All I see is scapegoating and obfuscation from my points of argument.

Why not have this discussion again now with everyone now that the boards being ported over, now is a perfect time to fix these glaring issues.

f1 and Zanbamon like this
Germany

For more fuel for your fire, 100% isn't actually 100%. Low%, not actually low%. RBO, or reverse boss order, not actually reverse boss order.

To continue the trend, alttp low%, not actually low%. sm64 0 star, not actually called any%. oot glitchless, not actually glitchless. smw 0 exit, not actually called any%. Super Meat Boy any%, not actually any%.

Names are just that, names. You making mountains out of this molehill, when there are so many other examples of "poorly named" categories on this site tells me that the only reason you're here, is to create drama, and maybe for some reddit karma or something later when you post about "How dumb the SM Community is." You saw this opportunity for circle-jerking and decided to latch on to it with everything you've got.

To incorrectly quote someone from earlier in the thread: "Don't be afraid of change, gentlemen. Don't get hung up on keeping something named a certain way."

Its not a big deal, life will keep on being lived, and in the future, if and when someone beats Oatsngoats' world record, you can tell all your friends that "Its not the actual any%, that's factually incorrect."

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Deln likes this
United States

Why won't you answer my questions without strawmanning, obfuscating, and insulting me? Very mature.

And if the other categories have similar issues, fix them. Stop defending it. Literally takes less than two seconds to add "NMG" to the end of any% on this site (as its listed on deertier btw) and it solves this entire issue. All you're doing is causing unnecessary drama and making a, as you put it, mountain out of a molehill.

Also, stop deflecting to other games, I'll get to them later.

f1 and Zanbamon like this
New York, USA

What is your problem?! LOL

You're acting like you have the right to thrust your ideas onto a community in which you are not a part of. I myself don't agree with the naming, but I'm not causing a fit. Grow up.

Edited by the author 7 years ago
Deln likes this

I think it is clear that Any% and Any% (nmg) are the accurate category names. If my understanding is correct, this naming was rejected by the community as a means of conserving the popularity of what they have denoted amongst themselves as the "major category". You guys know that ppl outside of the community who are watching speed runs of the game for the first time, are most likely to watch an Any% run (the fastest time the game can be beaten). You didn't want ppl to look up Any% SM and watch a quick completion of the game, because it would detract them from watching runs of what you consider to be main category (Any% NMG). This decision was to serve your own selfish needs.