Legacy SS rule
8 years ago

Since we kind of regulate the leaderboards now this came up because no one actually followed that rule until now. Legacy runs have a SS rule, no save and loading.

Some people want that rule gone, since it never was really followed anyway. We also dont randomly want to change rules so active runners should decide instead. So if you agree that the no qs/ql rule should be removed from that category please say so in this thread so it can be removed without someone going crazy about it and blaming a single person for changing rules.

Again: If you are an active runner of this category CLEARY state if you want the rule gone or not.

Teslaë likes this
Germany

In my opinion the single segment rule is not needed. In my eyes Legacy is the route before save glitch and double edge glitches were used and nothing more. Yes, back in the days Portal had an SS rule and the Portal Demo Timer program by Fatalis even has a "validate run" option that only validates your run if your demo count matches the one of a single segment run.

I think Portal evolved as a game and the runners that played back in the day sort of disappeared and it's time for the new generation of Portal runners to take over and update the rules to the currend mindset.

Single segment is a very cool challenge that you can still set for yourself and if you manage to beat it that is very impressive, but it should not be a rule since it can potentially drive people away from the category and reduce the fun factor since mistakes can be made very easily in this game (which would mean you have to reload).

For short, I think the SS rule is not needed and it should be removed.

French Southern Territories

Well, what is clear is that you have to follow a rule, you can't both write it and not respect it so i agree with XeiZ : We have to make a choice. Honestly, no QS and no QL in legacy makes the run harder. Yes, harder but is it THAT hard ? I mean this ain't HL2, doing SS is possible and not incredibly hard. So I think, even if we get worse times because strats are hard in SS, we should have a SS rule and runs should be verified often.

France

I'm in, I don't think this category requiers to be single segments, and since nobody respected it before I don't know why it would matter to use quicksaves now. Even glitchless runs doesn't need to be ss

Friesland, Netherlands

RTA No QS is a thing in the HL2 episodes at least, which is RTA but without quicksaves (so autosaves only). It's basically SS.

PackSciences likes this
French Southern Territories

Apparently majority wants to get SS rule to be removed :/

Germany

I don't see how saving and loading will make the run harder. You can reload if you make a mistake and don't have to reset. Also, times will not get worse since everybody is reloading right now anyways.

EDIT: To be clear, saving and loading will NOT allow save glitching since this is banned in the rule "displacement of body outside of maps is not allowed".

"RTA No QS is a thing in the HL2 episodes at least, which is RTA but without quicksaves (so autosaves only). It's basically SS."

Which also means that the rules are worded in a very poor way because loading autosaves is still loading.

Anyway, making rules, following rules, verifying rules is a clusterfuck at the moment. Personally i couldnt give 2 shits about people that dont even run the category in question which is why i wrote "active runners", i dont care if you ran this category 10 years ago, i dont care if you plan to run it in 5 years and i especially dont care what other games do. If people think they have a word about the rules, run the category now, run it more than a few times just to think you have a word in this. The main problem is that everyone thinks he has to give his opinion on something that does not concern him in any possible way.

That way no progress can ever be made because hey im important in sm64 because i once thought i might learn that game eventually so im important enough to change rules for it. Also i might have quoted you S. but that was just a general rant, so im sorry if it came off as against you personally, i understood what you meant and that you didnt mean to tell your opinion about the category rule itself. (i might have worded this poorly but will let this stay here because of the general idea)

Furthermore if anyone now thinks "look at those guys suddenly changing everything lmao", im sure no one wants cheated runs on the leaderboards. All we want is to have some sort of structure and not a chronikeys dark theme.

I also dont want a discussion about this here now.

France

In my opinion, the single segment rule is a really cool challenge. But this rule isn't respected and for a beginer, it's really hard to do a SS run. So why not create a category legacy (with save/load) and a category SS where every glitch is authorized ? i don't know it's not the best idea but it's a cool challenge to do an SS run..

PackSciences likes this
French Southern Territories

I meant no QL and no QS makes the run harder (little mistake) Well, I run Legacy often because it's always nice to show to friends IRL and I used to do races a while ago. Well I agree with XeiZ, even if his words might not be the nicest like "shit" but I think SS is quite important in Legacy and I don't want a random guy doing a few pot belge with QL.

Germany

In my opinion this category is too arbitraty to have another subcategory. If you want to do a single segment run you can set the challenge for yourself. I think we can also enable this column here so you can see if a run is SS or not http://puu.sh/jdxK9/fd0589a7e8.jpg

nan0, PackSciences and 2 others like this
French Southern Territories

Ok, let's do it

United States

If you take away SS rule from legacy, is it even "legacy" anymore?

I know I'm not active anymore, but I just don't understand the point of removing the ONE rule that literally makes the category. SS presents a different challenge, removing it kinda makes the category useless (as if it wasn't already).

PackSciences likes this
French Southern Territories

I agree with XCD

Germany

In the past I thought that Legacy was made for people that didn't like the save glitch and displacing the hitbox out of bounds, so this kinda stuck to me.

Can I create a poll somewhere here so we can clearly see how many people want it and how many don't?

Derbyshire, England

If someone understands the circumstances completely, then how exactly is their opinion any less valid than someone who runs the game/category? In a community vote they shouldn't get to take part, I agree, but in normal discussion pointing out pros cons etc I don't see why their opinion is any less valuable.

Just thought I'd mention: In HL1 there once was a quicksave/quickload strat that saved a couple of seconds and the majority of people wanted to not use it (in favour of keeping the SS route) so what we said was "you can use quicksaves/loads so that we're not elitist and everybody can submit their run, but you can't use quicksaves/loads to perform RTA-exclusive tricks because we want to keep the SS route".

This situation sounds pretty similar so I thought it'd be worth mentioning it.

French Southern Territories

PJC, the situation is a bit different (because the rule is on speedrun.com rules + not applied) and a bit similar at the same time

This isnt a general discussion about it though, because that gets you nowhere and we had that happen way too often by now. It is literally impossible to get a end result if everyone not even remotely connected to the issue starts giving his opinions. Giving ideas how to handle the problem sure, straight up saying "no removing that rule is dumb Kappa HD EKKS DEE" is annoying if that person has no involvement with that category anyway.

To clarify it once more: That rule has ALWAYS been there, just this leaderboard was a clusterfuck with no one moderating anyway, out of the 18 submitted runs maybe 3 followed that rule, 1 of those 3 played the game the last time 1 year ago. So its either enforce that rule or remove it and in case of removing it, shouldnt the people who actually care about the category have the last word in it?

PackSciences likes this
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