Luigi's Mansion Forum  /  Regarding Veman (Locked)
  Gc4ever4001Gc4ever4001
(edited: )

I'll try and keep this brief.

As you may or may not be aware, Veman has recently been active again after a long time away and some drama that had happened. Leaderboard mods have been in discussion for the past couple days and have come to the conclusion that due to a lack of trust from past experiences, we will not be accepting his runs onto the leaderboard. Obviously he can still run the game and do what he wants, just the times will not be reflected on this website.

Thanks for your time.

-Adam

Edit: If the rest of the community thinks this is wrong, no decision is ever final. Please put your input. As for input, here's a screencap of my personal opinions from a few days ago. https://gyazo.com/412828dda26658fd66c4e4baef6a2243

MastahbobbyMastahbobby, Rose90Rose90 and HDlaxHDlax like this. 
  GraystripeGraystripe

really?! What exactly happened before that lets you ban him from the boards? the only few cases ive heard of is through cheating or suspected cheating. did he?

 
  HDlaxHDlax

He's manipulated people in the past, knew USB Loader was faster for years, but kept it private from everyone else, and when Bonesaw called him out for it, he shot him down immediately. He's always been untrustworthy, manipulated anyone and everyone he knew, and he's still pretty untrustworthy to this day. While he has been forgiven by most people, including myself, this move is for the best.

Rose90Rose90 likes this. 
  NimbusNimbus

I know a lot of people will question the reasoning behind this choice and I feel this is likely a good way to explain it so here's a copypaste of what I've written to the other mods and I think posting it here will give some more insight behind this choice since we're pretty much of similar mindset as well as a taste of the sort of discussion that takes place among mods for further detail.

"I have some issues with it for a few reasons.

One that it apparently it's being hidden up and covered when what Veman did was extremely bad, and yet Monado's case was blown up to hell and back and that wasn't nearly as bad. Some kid splicing a 15th place run vs. someone purposely cheating for YEARS with a version that's insanely faster, acting like a prick about it and shitting on other runners and then shunning and pushing out one of the top runners (Bonesaw) from the community because he caught onto that mess and tried calling it out then later attempting the same with another top runner (Skozzy) when it was brought into light again. It's a ridiculous suggestion to even consider hiding something that big scale because it shows the person who did it it's all okay and I have a lot against even just that notion.

Two, he never got punishment for it. Tell me, if you got caught cheating for years and were finally exposed on using a version you KNEW was unfairly faster what would you do? Stick around and face the music or drop off the face of the earth to avoid any consequences? Cuz from what I'm seeing Veman did exactly the later and it looks like it's working. He never got consequences for cheating, meanwhile Monado got immediately BANNED from the boards? That's unfair. And yes, I'm gonna bring up Monado a lot cuz it pisses me off how differently these two were treated when Veman did way worse and how, again, he never faced any real consequences for it. I don't care how long ago something is or when the person did it, I really don't like it when people aren't owned up to their shit, let alone allowed to get off free, especially in a situation like this where someone who did less got more.

Three, I heard from Skozzy that apparently Veman is acting like he didn't know he was using a faster version, and I trust Skozzy more than a majority of the community, so I'll take his word on that since I've never watched Veman's streams with audio on. And if that's the case that makes me even angrier because that shows me he was never sorry about what he did, he isn't sorry about it, and he'll never be sorry about it if he can't even own up on the fact it existed. I don't know about all y'all but what Veman did is the worst thing anyone in this community has done and the fact he's allowed to just pretend like he's a victim doesn't sit well with me at all, especially considering how he was welcomed back with open arms, but someone like Monado was very harshly shunned out of the community. And don't tell me he wasn't treated harshly I remember all the nasty things people said to his face."

KingRedEagleKingRedEagle, BluehitsBluehits and HDlaxHDlax like this. 
  Snap32Snap32

It disgusts me to read this update honestly. You guys can do what you want as mods, but banning someone for mistakes made YEARS in the past is the most unprofessional thing I've ever heard. Issues from way back when shouldn't be brought up again. Especially considering everything Vasacce has already been put through for his mistakes. You guys need to find another outlet instead of stirring around old forgotten drama.

 
  HDlaxHDlax

That's what all of his supporters are going to say. Snap, you were not in the Skype group when he went on his frenzy, you didn't see how he treated the people in there, especially Skozzy. All he's done his entire Speedrunning career is manipulate people into getting things he wants. It's horrifying. And quite frankly, I'm disgusted at seeing the comment you made, defending this guy.

DeathJohnsonDeathJohnson likes this. 
  BluehitsBluehits
(edited: )

Your argument holds no water, Snap. Should criminals be let off scot-free just because their crime was "from way back when?" He never even said sorry, nor did he own up to any of his actions. It would be a different story if he actually acted like an adult. Don't take that as a literal comparison, just as a demonstration of your poor logic.

NimbusNimbus likes this. 
  HDlaxHDlax

I really wouldn't even call them mistakes. He knew what he was doing the whole time.

 
  Jcool114Jcool114

Aside from all said drama, considering he never cheated, he shouldn't be banned from submitting to a leaderboards, provided he can supply adequate proof. All that does is make the leaderboards less accurate as someone's times are missing from it. This is coming from someone who used to use an ISO loader for certain games when it was legal at the time. Just remove the ISO loaded times, move on. No ban needed.

DuckstroyerDuckstroyer likes this. 
  HDlaxHDlax

It basically was cheating though. He manipulated all of these people to make it legal. So, he cheated, no doubt about it.

 
  Rose90Rose90

For example if anyone that didn't wanna use USB and brought up banning it to the community brought it up Veman and all the people he manipulated would have shun them right out of the community and shit talked them to no end

 
  NimbusNimbus

It was literally cheating. He knew usb loader was faster by a ton, he even admitted it, and he willingly chose to lie to the community about how fast it really is to keep his fake WR safe. It was a huge unfair advantage that went on for years and had the biggest negative impact this community has ever seen that still has lasting affects to this day.

KingRedEagleKingRedEagle and HDlaxHDlax like this. 
  DuckstroyerDuckstroyer

But a cheater in the past, while vile, is in the past.
Speedrun.com is not a place for drama and refusal for times, but rather a place for people to see what their personal times compare to other people's times. Now, if someone submits a run that is obviously cheated, then deny the run.
However, if Veman would to set a world record, I would like to see it myself, I want to compare to the worlds' best time of this game, even if the person cheated in the past.

It just takes a simple check to see if he is cheating the run that he uploads, its not like his past actions are going to affect his runs in any way.

 
  HDlaxHDlax

Duckstroyer, you clearly have no idea what is going on here. Just stop.

 
  Snap32Snap32

Considering how brutally attacked I was first getting into this community maybe try seeing this from my point of view, I've always been easily able to forgive people even when they're absolutely unequivocally in the wrong. As far as I'm concerned banning him from the boards at this point is your guys' way of taking revenge. It's disgusting. We all know no matter how he acted in the past he wouldn't dare try to use a faster software ever again... And what he did wasn't even cheating in the first place. Bending the truth is wrong, but there's absolutely no good reason to ban him at this point except to satisfy your hurts by him from the past. I coincidentally left the LM discord earlier today, and this is just another good reason as of why.

DuckstroyerDuckstroyer likes this. 
  Jcool114Jcool114

It basically isn't cheating though, because it was still legal. It only takes one person to time the difference and figure out it saves more than 2 seconds. Did nobody think to see for themselves if he was actually saving time by ISO loading?

DuckstroyerDuckstroyer likes this. 
  DuckstroyerDuckstroyer

To say I don't know the exact details of the situation is quite true HDlaxbm, but I do understand that if Veman would want to upload his personal times to this board, I would personally have no problem of him doing as such. He'd obviously have to drop the cheating, but as Snap has eloquently stated for me, its a way of revenge.

Do what you guys want, but personally, this feels wrong. Yes, the guy has made mistakes, I understand that he hasn't exactly been apologetic about it, but times are times, and as long as that specific time is legal, it should be allowed.

 
  Snap32Snap32

Oh wow, even writing that last post HDlaxbm shows a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Brutally attacking someone for no goddamn reason. Duckstroyer stated a perfectly valid argument, although yes the view doesn't have a strong knowledge base, their was ABSOLUTELY no reason to publicly criticize him for it...

DuckstroyerDuckstroyer likes this. 
  HDlaxHDlax

He still hasn't apologized for the shit he's done in the past, especially to Bonesaw or Skozzy. And tried to brush it off like nothing happened. As Nimbus said, "he never got punishment for it. Tell me, if you got caught cheating for years and were finally exposed on using a version you KNEW was unfairly faster what would you do? Stick around and face the music or drop off the face of the earth to avoid any consequences? Cuz from what I'm seeing Veman did exactly the later and it looks like it's working." Why do people want this guy around after everything? You have no idea what happened in the past, all he's done is manipulated people into getting things he wants.

Rose90Rose90 likes this.