Glitchless?
2 years ago

Can we please add a category for glitchless runs in the Disney Collection ? The people doing the ANy% are typically clipping and stuff like that.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Imperas91 and Retroprinz like this
Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, Finland

Hmm, I don't necessarily see that adding glitchless runs to the Disney collection would be beneficial as the exploitless category already has rather few runners and there wouldn't be much comparison runs. What I would be in favor of instead would be to add a mention the Exploitless% rules that the Disney Collection version is an accepted platform to do the runs in. I'm fairly sure that is the category you'd be hoping to run/see more as clipping was one of the major rules discussed early on for that category.

This would require the addition of disallowing L+R inputs to the ruleset as DCG by default doesn't limit this input type out, but I do think it would be in the spirit of the ruleset. I'll bring this up with the other moderators to get their input in aswell.

Retroprinz and Estacaco like this
Victoria, Australia

Hi, yeah I agree that it would be a pretty empty category at the moment unless there’s a few more people that show some interest in running it. We’ve been needing to do some more testing with DCG to see what the potential time differences could be with the main game. I’ll try get some videos made this week then we can see if a merge could be a possibility. Think it would be better to keep DCG category’s consistent regarding mixing. Once I get some recordings I’ll post in the discord to discuss.

Retroprinz likes this

Makes snes to me.

There appears to be what seems like 5-10 seconds of time difference between the 2 versions, though that may just be me.

Edited by the author 2 years ago

I don't really agree with the rules set for the glitchless category anyway, and since I appear to be the only one askign for a glitchless category in DCG, perhaps it's not worth implementing.

Things in the rules that are part of the game are being considered exploits, while things that are actually exploits are allowed.

It all makes no sense to me. I will just stick to the dcg any% category and work on getting the 16 minutes eventually. It's probably possible to get below that wihtout exploiting the game. If the wr holder for glitchless can beat the game in 15:40 without the use of the bug jump or giraffe jump or other things , then it is possible to get 14 minutes or less using them. So i will just stick to playing my own version of glitchless and put up with the fact it doesn't have a category of it's own.My run last night, would have been sub 18 had i not died twice.

Thanks anyway.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, Finland

To each their own, you're ofc welcome to do runs with a ruleset you set for yourself and the any% board is the correct for the run. I'll need to retime the run before verification as the run stop seems a bit late, I'll get to that tomorrow when I have full access to the tools I usually use.

I do wonder what you believe the current ruleset to allow that you consider an exploit compared to your own ruleset. I watched through the current record run again and couldn't spot anything that you didn't use in your run and in addition you are performing swipe-jumping to move simbas hitbox mid-jump for height and killing monsters while not attacking. Back when the exploitless category was originally created a discussion took place where rules were formed and the name 'exploitless' describes the leaderboard accurately for the spirit of the ruleset.

Hesse, Germany

I did read the rules for Exploitless. The one thing that caught my eyes was that glitch killing the hyenas in Return isn't mentioned. That level seems to be forgotten in the rules.

But since we had that discussion on Genny side half a year ago or so, maybe you want to take the easier rule set we agreed on there too. Cause yes, it can be very tiresome to conclude what is intended, what an exploit and such. At least, that was one of the main arguments back then.

IN a nutshell, both the bug jump and the giraffe jump should not be considered exploits, because nothing is being exploited. You are simply jumping at the right time. What's the difference between this and having the timing downpat to jump across logs or to jump across giraffe heads at beginning of hakuna matata. Absolutely no difference whatsoever. Same thing with the vulture bounce to bypass bone p ile in level 3. These are all things you do naturally. You do not have to get iframes or perform fancy maneuiers. You simply have to know when the right time to jump is. You aren't bypassing an entire screen of the level doing so either. In my mind, using these is no different than using a secret passage way.

On the other hand

Clipping through walls to bypass entire areas is an exploit because you have to abuse the ingame mechanics to become damage immune and quite clearly these are glitches in the programming the devs never ironed out. Causing the 3rd hyena to despawn, is an exploit. It's not "intended" ie, not meant to happen. Skipping through the waterfall is obvioulsy an exploit. THere's a secret path there that you are expected to use.

Just answering your question.

Edited by the author 2 years ago

sorry if i'm passing off as rude. I'm simply just stating that if no one else is interested in doing the dcg on glitchless other than me, that I disagree with the rules set in place for the category and there's no point making a category as I will just be playing any%. It' spossible to beat this game in less than 15 minutes doing so without using any of the things I do consider glitches it will just take practice.

have a good day :)

Orlando, FL, USA

The concept of no exploits on this game is indeed... rough. As Bronkel mentioned, we had this whole situation on the Genesis side a while back. There is no way to tell what is considered intended or what is considered an "exploit" without actually consulting someone who actually worked on the game.

Over in Genesis we simply trashed the category in favor for a more simple "no clipping" category. Much less confusing and straightforward.

Edited by the author 2 years ago
Retroprinz and Estacaco like this
Pohjois-Pohjanmaa, Finland

Yeah, the exploitless category is a collection of rules set down by a vote back in the day. As everyone is allowed their own opinion but it doesn't make sense to have a board for each variation of the rules, a common ground was found and the current ruleset formed from what I remember. At the same time, I believe some of your ideas of what are glitches in the game are based on false information 1001gameslive, as you're stating that causing the 3rd hyena to despawn is an exploit for example. I'm fairly sure you're referring to the Elephant Graveyard levels end, we do not cause the hyena to despawn, the 1st and 2nd hyenas simply drop down from the exact same location and frame, so if you do optimal movements to kill them as fast as possible, they never get the chance to separate from their stacked locations and you end up killing them simultaneously.

While the clipping done in Exile is most definetly an exploit, you are actually wrong in stating that it's taking advantage of iframes to go through the wall, all the skips in the level are based on platform geometry and Simbas hitboxes. I think 3 or even 4 are known which can be done without taking damage, the one known as Exile 1 simply has the thorn pit next to it forcing the jump during iframes. It may seem like the iframes are being used as part of the skip but they are simply a side-effect of happening to be the fastest method of movement and setting up consistent movement and timing setups.

I do not mean these as trying to prove your preference for running the game glitchless wrong, I'm well familiar with many runners preferring to try speedrun games without utilizing game glitches. In my opinion it is simply too much of a grey line in Lion King, as proven by the exploitless category to call any run glitchless, as we don't know if some of the used speedrunning techniques are the result of errors in game code or overlooked level / game mechanic design.

There are 3 hyena's in the boss fight on elephant graveyard. You have to fight all 3 of them normally to complete the level. The 3rd hyena spawns in after the first 2 are completed.

All the runs i've seen, they kill the 2 hyena's then exit the level and the third hyena never spawns.

I'm unaware of what you are referring to. I'm aware that you can kill both the first hyeans at once. However, you are supposed to have killed the 3rd hyena to exit the level, and it will not spawn until the first 2 are defeated. So barring some randomness controlling their being or not being 3 hyenas, i have no idea. Every run i've attempted a 3rd hyena has spawned, only after killing off the first 2 hyenas. It's a delayed spawn. About 1 second after you kill the first 2 hyenas, the third hyena falls down. Again, i've only been playing this game since recently, so perhaps there is some other reason this is happening I am not aware of that would still fall under the category of not being an exploit. No idea. Just calling it as I see it.

The other stuff I have no idea bout as I'm not versed in the technical stuff regarding speedruns. Thank you for taking the time to explain it to me however as I now have learned something :)

Edited by the author 2 years ago

Sorry, this discussion was not meant to be a debate on the rules. I've turned it into one apparently. interesting dsicussing all this anyhow. :)

Nova Scotia, Canada

The runs you’re seeing don’t despawn any hyenas. The second and third hyena spawn on the same Y-axis pixel so they come down perfectly overlapped. If you kill them effectively they stay overlapped the whole time and they both take damage and die at the same time. This gives the appearance that there is one on the left and one on the right, but there is actually one on the left and two on the right

Retroprinz, Sarabi and 2 others like this
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