What're the chances of a nmg sort of category making an appearance with new skips being found on the semi-regular?

I know a couple folks from the glitchless sonic categories, myself included, that'd love to give crash whirl but just aren't into the hyperjumps/swapping resolution/etc sort of gameplay and would like an equal footing. - I've kind of poked around and have been told to "just learn it" or "there's many glitchless runners with good times" - but it'd be nice to compete with equal footing with no glitches rather than just always know its never going to be top placing. Anything already submitted can remain but future nmg style runs would go on the new board how they handled sonic 2.

Or if not now, how many skips have to be found until we can just have another tab? With so many runners surely it can't be too bad to have a category like this now (we even have category extensions)

Appreciate the consideration!

Being the host of the NMG Tournament, I am in full support of this. At first when we got the NMG Tournament together there was not enough major skips to make it as viable. But with the most recent huge finds by DiggetyDave, the category has become far more relevent in my honest opinion. I do believe we are going to be discussing more about this after the Tournament. I will most certain like to push for its addition to the Leaderboards.

I very much support this. I would love to give this game a shot glitchless but am a little discouraged knowing runs with glitches will always be higher on the board.

Thank you.

this would be something fun to see coming

I know im a bit late here, but i was going to make a post requesting the same thing. i'm new to running Crash 1.

Any news on this?

Any% NMG was added as a variable on the any% leaderboard therefore you can filter out runs that include major glitches. Unfortunately this is about as good as we're gonna get in terms of having any sort of real leaderboard specifically for NMG.

Oh. Ok...

So how do you expect the category to gain steam when Glitchless players will never have the opportunity to have a World Record? It feels like I’m being told to sit at the back of the room and be quiet while everyone else has fun.

But you will have a world record...

It seems small, but its very different competitively when people can come to the site see the categories rather than someone has to come in and go through filters.

It also doesn't show up on the site as a 1st through 3rd or even the correct place on your profile natively if it's a filtered category. Someone who is third in no major shows 13th on their profile using Tavin as an example.

Resident evil 1 has a drop-down category for glitchless and glitched that does the same thing as the filter but also keeps it as a proper category on your profile. It makes a huge difference for optics and newcomers. Awhile back there was only 1 or 2 real major skips/glitches but now the difference is only bigger.

“But you will have a world record”?… Not with the way the board is currently set up, I won’t…

Personally, whereas I think No Major Glitches for Crash 1 should be split in different categories rather than Filters as well as it was done for Crash 3 No Out of Bounds at least and considering how much hyperjumps, clock storage (or however is called) and other tricks have changed some categories in terms of performances, rather than route; I also feel like the "I can't have World Record" is a very poor motivation to throw in.

From a runner POV, first of, you should always have a run ready to submit at the very least so to show* your will to run the game while asking for a category to be added, also to avoid making requests and leave those boards empty or letting others fill those for you; in this case, I haven't found any available video of a Crash NST run in your socials, so I'd recommend starting to upload one at least.

Secondary, as WingKn0x has recently proven (https://www.speedrun.com/crashnst/runs/ydlxegxz) and as Tavin did it in the past, you can very well achieve great and insane times even without them being actively displayed on the leaderboards or without it being displayed as World Record, as WingKn0x did. Just because that linked run doesn't have a golden trophy on its left it doesn't make that run worse than the ones above, but the opposite, I think that run is way better in its own way. Of course it doesn't get much visibility, which is why I support the split, but if someone really cares to find these kind of runs they can surely do it with filters anyway.

Last but not least, just have fun running the game, it doesn't matter what time you achieve and how you achieve it; don't let the abscence of a silly page on* Speedrun.com stop you from doing what you wanna do.

As of right now I hold the NMG world record for C1 any% and I have titled my video as such. In some cases like this one the wr doesn't need to sit atop of the table to be labelled 'WR'.

Sure, it doesn't get as much watch time as the main category any% wr does and you could argue that's because of the way the boards are set up. Personally I would agree with you to a certain extent.

But my time running this game has shown me that NMG just isn't as interesting to most watchers as glitched runs are, at least in the case of Crash 1 therefore I don't think NMG having its own board would change its popularity at all.

This is coming from somebody who is strongly in agreeance with having a seperate NMG board because it's simply the better category and having exposure would bring more players to it. Unfortunately in the case of C1 NST it's just not going to happen any time soon.

Does it suck? Yes. Do I agree with it? Not at all. The amount of times I've heard people in the community say things like 'Resident Evil 1 has a drop down category for glitchless, why can't we do that' blah blah blah is crazy. I totally agree that something like this should be set up for c1 NMG but the majority of people who are in charge of the board structure continually ignore this issue and just won't do anything about it let alone reply. Quite frankly, it's kinda killing the game in a way because it means that people who are showing an interest like you guys are discouraged from running it. Just fucking sad really.

Alright, considering I'm one of the people in charge that will never ever reply, I'll give some personal insides on the categories.

1. A lot of times when people ask for categories, to make them easier, those people DON'T end up playing the game at all. Just a thought of a glitchless category is appealing to them, but actually playing is a different thing. Something we already experienced few years back with a "C3 Any% NMG" (not to be confused with No OOB).

2. Seeing the claims that World Record is the most important thing tells me a lot about your goals, not about actually playing and improving at the game, but just having an easy way getting a top time. I would love more runners, but as it stands, and my apologies if that may sound harsh, if you just have eyes on World Record, I don't think you care that much about the game itself.

Those two responses are more for the people that think about starting out with the game, but don't for one reason or another. My general response is, just go for it, as Buggle said, don't let the boards stop you. If you focus on the goal of "I want a World Record", it won't do well for you. And again, it sounds harsh, but I've seen a lot for the last 9 years since I started speedrunning. It's best to show "I care about the game.", instead of "I will care about the game once X, Y and Z is done.", because good part of people don't follow up on their promises unfortunately.

The third response is more for the runners of the game that played the game for a while now.

3. While I do understand not agreeing with the filter, claiming the we ignore the issue implies that there was an issue that we might just not be aware about. Ever since the split, I didn't really see or was told about the further thoughts on the matter, except by buggle once or twice, back when he was a verifier, as well as this thread. Which, I will apologize for ignoring, as I imagine the whole mod team is more likely to check the discord server than the forums on the site, as evident. Four of us are also busy with our lives, so checking the forums was unfortunately not the highest priority. But it's still only 2 months, the rest I was not told about anything and wasn't mentioned in the server. I was simply not Aware™ about the amount of people having the issues with the way things are.

Both No OOB for Crash 3 and NMG for Crash 1 can be re-evaluated. We're only closing in on one year of the filter being made, so the changes can always be made and re-evaluated by the mod team.

Don't also think of us being malicious on purpose, the mod team might just have a different thought proccess when it comes to the reasoning.

After all, Any% NMG IS proving to be ran quite frequently, something that didn't quite happen at all with C3 Any% NMG and, while C3 No OOB is doing okay, C1 Any% NMG is doing miles better.

Also, it's not like our stance will always be the same. My takes on speedrunning in general change all the time. There's a lot of stuff I'd have a different stance on right now than, say, 5 years ago.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but I also want the best for the game. And I won't always make the right choices. No one does.

Cheers.

(yapping.gif)

I hate to reopen a closed wound but I think Wing made a lot of good points and perhaps I didn't express myself very well. When I said "But you will have a world record..." It was kind of ambiguous what I meant. I meant it absolutely is a valid world record and the visibility of it as such is what's lost rather than it's worth. For enthusiasts like us, we know and clicking a category tab is no different to clicking a drop down filter in theory. It's just popularity that suffers really.

I understand category soup too. It's probably a cause of great division among those with a say.

From my own experience it was annoying when pc and console were unified. At first I was not good enough to compete with the best console players and it was annoying, then when I beat them, I felt bad since pc is faster. Luckily they eventually were separated. It's a relatively young game. People are still running the original games. Hopefully in time and when appropriate, things will improve.

I'd also like to add that a wr is more about what it means to you than popularity. The sad reality is that casual lets plays get a lot more traction than carefully honed speedruns by and large. I think if even one person appreciates your wr, it's a bonus. For me, it's about the personal grind and catharsis when you hit that goal.