As of now, there is a only a very small minority of players who compete on consoles. The reason Elden Ring and Sekiro have this split is because the In-Game Timer used on PC is different than the default one on console, so they can't be fairly compared. DSR does not suffer from this issue as the IGT is consistent and equal on both platforms. Therefore, a split is most likely unnecessary, although some strategies may not be possible on console. The platform filter exists for a reason. It's essentially a way to split the categories without creating new subcategories to clutter the leaderboard.
Hope this makes sense.
By that reasoning switch should be a separate category as the timer is also not comparable. But there are really only a small number of switch runs and only 1 I can find in the last year (for glitchless any%).
I was curious what the numbers were and there's a higher number of console runners than you might think. Based on the leaderboard filters (not perfect, some runners have done console runs then switched to PC).
| Category | Console Runs | Total Runs | Percentage (rounded) |
|-----------------|--------------|------------|----------------------|
| Any% | 43 | 271 | 16% |
| No Wrong Warp | 22 | 102 | 22% |
| All Bosses | 7 | 56 | 13% |
| Glitchless Any% | 12 | 90 | 13% |
I'm not sure there's enough activity for a separate leaderboard, but the same could also be said for Elden Ring. At least remaster is unlikely to need to completely wipe the leaderboard with each update.
You make good points. If there was enough demand for Switch boards, I could totally see that being it's own category, or a separate leaderboard to be honest.
Elden Ring's demand for console runs went down a lot since release for sure but it's easier to argue for its maintenance given the timers are incongruent.
I think Console boards would make all the games more accessible, more players could be interested in running the game if they know they will compete against peers instead of being pushed down the board for stuff they can't even do. PC runners have access to gadget to drop items, autosplitter and numerous other advantages, console runs could have been an entire different run if it had it's board separate because people would come together to find different ways to achieve the same goals.
I would run this game if it had a console board, tbh. It would just overall be more fair, Elden Ring has small activity because of the patches killing every run people try to do besides glitchless, and if I'm being completely honest there only seems to be a want for a console board when PC is at disadvantage somehow like it was back when Godfrey Skip was next to impossible on PC but easy on Console due to load times. 13% may look small but heck, there are entire boards in this website with less runs that 12 or 22. I think the community would only gain accessibility and more diversity in strats if we had a Console board. I'm giving my 2 cents because even tho I'm not a runner of the game, this is literally the only thing that keeps me away from running DSR
being in the same board doesn't mean you are competing with PC players, you compete with who you want to, your run won't be more or less meaningfull just because there's a separate board for consoles and adding a board for console won't change the game in any way, it's still there independently for you to run and enjoy, and a community with people who play on console and want to support eachother and come up with faster ways to run the game on console can still be formed independently of how the current board is organized, don't wait for a leaderboard to run something you want to.
Exactly, we aren't competing against anyone, which is one of the fun things about having a leaderboard, competing with your peers. It won't change the game but it can change how people play, take Sekiro as an example, we have different strats for console because of the way the hardware works, they are minor changes to the run because the game is way more linear, but still. The leaderboards are a way for people to gather and unite, how many people showed up in the discord saying "hey I've been watching the run on the board..." or something similar? If a console player wants to run the game, they'll be able to easily find their peers, learn what they came up with and go from there instead of being discouraged by several "oh you have to downpatch to do that" or "you can't do that on console because x, y and z"
Sorry, maybe I misunderstand what you are trying to say. A leaderboard will not change the way you play the game. As of now, the console runs are very similar to the fastest PC runs. Not the same, of course, but very similar. No extreme changes in gameplay style are introduced. Having a separate category is not going to change this.
I can see where you are going with the community argument but I disagree. The leaderboards are not something that makes people gather and unite, it's the Discord as you mention. What you advocate for is rather separate channels of communication for console runners rather than a leaderboard split? Though being dismissive of console speedruns is definitely a potential problem. That being said, some of the tutorials on this page cater to console runs as well.
If you are discouraged from running a game by it not having a leaderboard for your specific console, I think that's more of a runner problem than anything else. A leaderboard doesn't create a community, a community creates a leaderboard. In general, people tend to fixate on leaderboards way too much. I can understand why in a sense, as it's the first point of contact, but a leaderboard doesn't determine what can/should or can't/shouldn't do.
The current filters already allow you to view console runs only and therefore "find peers" and other competitors as you mention. A separate sub-category or something similar just transforms this separation. Furthermore, I would not really bring Sekiro or Elden Ring into the conversation because they are different games with different rules. They are not connected to DS1/DSR. If you wanted to generalize, there are way too many instances of hardware differences creating advantages or disadvantages and not all receive such splits (Console type, Harddrive type, Firmware versions...). In the case of ER, several decisions were made when the game launched. Most people advocating for console splits and categories such as NWW haven't touched the game since the first month of release. The initial discussions are therefore sort of irrelevant to the current situation.
Finally, I would like to stress that these are my opinions, I am not speaking on behalf of the other moderators for the leaderboards, though I think at least some would share this view.
It's easier to unite, because we can see the run more clearly and more objectively. The fastest console run is similar to the fastest PC run? Yes, but it's still a grindfest of a route that if I'm gonna be honest, PC isn't really affected by, you guys have gadget, you can get practice runs literally all the time, it's hard for us to even practice the run. That's what I mean about finding ways to play that suit us, we can try to reroute the game, channels of discussions can be a thread on discord that we create to talk about. The board is dismissive of console runs since always, man. It's always the same demand answer when every time there's new people bringing this up and I'm always trying to jump on the wagon to show more numbers about this but the answer remains the same, there's 30 active players to the game and on this thread alone 3 people that said that a console category would make them more comfortable to run, that's already a 10% increase.
The reason we are discouraged from running a game by not having a board is because we're being denied part of the fun of being in the board. Filtering doesn't change that, because it's just a filter, it's just hides the other runs and we are still forced with disadvantages the whole way through. We can't downpatch, we can't properly practice because with the current main route it's a grind to even make save files, we have to split manually to keep track of what we're doing and compare, we have less strats(therefore literally a forced slower run that can never compete), the list probably way longer than these examples. About the hardware disadvantages that did not receive splits, I remember that just as in ER we're here since message one on this thread asking for the bare minimum: "Console" board. Nothing else. I didn't touch ER in months because FromSoft kept patching everything we found that it was viable, glitchless tech included, which is not a problem with this game.
It's always about "demand' but the demand resurfaces every time, with new and old people talking, and it stays the same, but to be completely honest we shouldn't even need to ask about the bare minimum of fairness. It's one extra button in the board that's not gonna harm anyone nor generate "clutter", bigger games with more people and runs to manage have this very basic option.
For whatever it's worth, the current SL1 NWW record is on console, and is the only console run for that category. If a console subcategory is created for that, it would be moved to its own subcategory and be first place by default.
Besides that, I don't really understand a reason to prefer either way of organizing the board. It's an aesthetic difference at the end of the day; if you filter the board by console runs only, you see a leaderboard that looks exactly like what the console leaderboard you want would look like, you just have to click different buttons to see it. Shrug.
Exceptions don't make it ok for it to be the way that it is and tbh you say it's only "aesthetic" because you're not affected by the current situation. Filters are not a board, they are just a mask to hide the problem, they don't change the boards, they are still the same. Like I said once on the thread, PC players only realize there should be a Console board when PC is at a forced disadvantage, just like it was with Elden Ring with the console only skips, you only see it when you're at the other side for a change.
I'm a PC player and this not affect me, but I agree. If you admit this or not, speedrunning is a competition. And how every competition we must make this fair for all of us. If your time doenst matter, why a leaderboard? I know in the console doesn't have so much player like on PC, but because that we stay blind to the prroblem? We ignore some players? I want see the speedruns souls comunity grow up, but for this we msut fix some old issues existent in ower rules and organization. Like the ligalization Gadget with PC runs and the separation of leaderboards of PC them consoles for example.
for what it's worth i was going to comment but lyforth aptly put it much better than i was able to
Did he? Because I can't really understand what the argument was. Bringing other problems into the discussion (such as gadget) is only derailing the issue at hand.
As for the argument about a sub-category or a filter, they are exactly the same thing. What if there were some advantages or disadvantages to different console platforms? Then you will end up with a sub-category and a filter split, instead of maintaining a simple filters split.
Yes, PC definitely has advantages, but come on, bringing up manual splitting which most people did for years and years and years on PC or practicing without Gadgetlemage, which also didn't exist for many years, is uncalled for and doesn't bring up anything relevant to the discussion. Those are not mandatory and defining perks.
Also, I don't understand why you are bringing up Elden Ring again and again. Console never had an advantage in ER, even with the "console only skips" that you talk about (which was mostly Godskin Duo skip btw) it would have been a slower run. The reason to separate was 99% made of the incompatible timers. PC literally uses a custom timer which console players cannot utilize.
Yo,
Gonna ignore Elden Ring/Sekiro analogies for obvious reasons and gadget leaderboard because I think that gadget leaderboard sould never exists, thus its not a point that could sway my opinion.
The number one console category that makes sense to me is Switch, which I would fully support if there was any sort of activity. I remember three Switch runs off the top of my head across all categories since the release of this game - Duck's investigation in finding one Switch run in the last year also supports the "Switch is dead" theory.
As for PS/Xbox: I see both sides.
The platform filter gives you the current console leaderboards, as stated above. I don't quite understand why that doesn't satisfy the competition itch with your platform peers.
Of course PC players have a practice advantage with their tools. As a console player you are disadvantaged due to that and some glitches not being available. I understand that.
The only reason this matters competitionwise is competing for the best times though - no casual runner that submits their PB for 32nd place cares about their disadvantages compared to the world record run... right?
Thus, a console leaderboard would benefit the best of the best competing with the best of the best on their specific platform and probably makes sense for those.
Following the reasoning that the filter option doesn't give console runners a competition with their peers: for any runner outside of the best of the best it removes their competition with runners on different platforms.
Which goes the other way around as well: if we talk about splitting the category for competition, you also take console competitors away from PC runners.
I feel like that hasn't been thought about yet.
The upside is that maybe more runners start running on console if we split the leaderboards.
Honestly: I personally don't care too much. I always competed with my personal limit or (rarely) in personal rivalries. Never mattered if that rivalry ran on the same platform - in the end there are a billion other factors outside of the platform that limit how much you and your rival can improve.
I mainly wanted to point out some aspects of competition that have not been brought up before. Whether we end up splitting the board or not, I am fine with either.
