Forums  /  Castlevania (NES)  /  Why is the japanese re-release banned for any% category ?
  SuperYoshiSuperYoshi

Idk why u ban the japanese version cause for example i own a famicom and i dont have any flashcart or sorta nes adapter and a castlevania cart , but i ONLY own the japanese version, makes no sense for me to limit to easy mode when u use this version, cause the normal setting of the game is identical to US CV1 , so why ban it?

sprivenspriven likes this. 
  Retrogaming2084Retrogaming2084

The 93 Famicom reissue counts down the extra hearts faster than the other versions.

Hope this answers your question.

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  sprivenspriven

i agree with komrade. the goal is typically to end the stages with 0 hearts anyway...players who can't accomplish that it barely helps really. it's just a few frames they will save over players that don't play on the famicom rerelease who can't accomplish dumping the hearts. idk i don't see a reason to keep it banned...no matter what the heart countdown, players who still have hearts vs players who dump them all. the players who dump them will still be faster. just my 2 cents.

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  2_snek2_snek

Just a friendly reminder that the current CV 1 WR has a heart countdown in level 1.

KungFusedMikeKungFusedMike likes this. 
  OliKadOliKad

There's also the point that people tend to go for the JP versions of many games. That's because most of them are faster to run through because of the Japanese text, which requires less space/characters compared to English text.
So I'm really wondering why a faster version of this game should be banned from this game, since a similar advantage - which is, a difference in a game which saves time over another version - is present in many, many games and widely accepted by the community. All of this just seems really inconsistent to me 😕

 
  SBDWolfSBDWolf

Just my 2 cents, since it's an official release it should at least be allowed somewhere, be it in the same place as the nes runs or in its own separate thing. I think the differences between us and jp are so small that the two are practically the same game and should just compete together in the same categories.

In the current wr route the only place where you should really run the risk of getting a heart countdown anyway is level 1 (which you can avoid every time as long as you whip that candle at the end of stage 01 properly). I keep hearing conflicting info about what the actual time loss is of getting a 1 heart countdown, but I ran a few frame counts myself on emu now and I got +8 frames for us and +2 frames for jp. Assuming this data is correct, the actual time difference between the two versions would be a potential 6 frames, and with optimal play 0 frames. Not enough of a difference to make the us version outright unrunnable.

Worth noting though that jp is undeniably faster for whip only since you can't dump hearts in the run ever.

About obtainability, for people playing on emulator, they can just obtain a jp rom in the same way they can get a us rom, and for people who only have an original nes, if they're at the point where they care about such a time difference they'll probably also have a flashcart they can use to run the jp version on nes. Personally I'll probably just keep using my us cart regardless for any%.

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  SBDWolfSBDWolf

Hey actually now that we're talking about it, has the anniversary collection ever been tested for framerate/game speed? Like, does it match the nes's speed of 60.0988 fps? I know a lot of virtual console releases run slower, wondering if that might also be the case for the collection. idk if in that scenario it would change your views on the jp release.

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  OliKadOliKad

Well even then, I've heard that the anniversary version of CV1 features the 1.0 version of the game which softlocks the game in Stage 5 sometimes! So I don't think anyone would wanna run it if that's true 😛

CrunanCrunan likes this. 
  2_snek2_snek

My statement before was countering the point that heart counts don't matter, because everyone leaves every level at 0. This is obviously false. In addition to level 1, for medium skilled players, heart count in level 4 is common, due to big hearts in stage 11. And your math is right - it's +8 frames in US.

It's important to note that with a change like this, the JPN version would suddenly become the definitive version. Accessibility absolutely is a valid argument, since Castlevania is a classic game that's relatively popular; we wouldn't want to reduce accessibility without a compelling reason.

But honestly, I don't really care that much. Like Wolf pointed out, the impact it would have on my runs with my current level of play is approximately 0. I'd like to ask the question, though, is there a compelling reason to add it?

 
  Retrogaming2084Retrogaming2084

Here are a few of my thoughts on the matter.

I haven't seen any PC submissions yet. Doesn't look like there's much interest in running the anniversary collection.

In general, I'd argue that emulator is still the most accessible version.

With the anniversary collection running an overclocked PRG0 version, I'm more in favor of removing it from the platforms instead of allowing Famicom reissue submissions for any%. In the off chance a new player purchases the anniversary collection and wants to run the game, there's always PRG0 (unfortunately) or "Easy" mode. If it catches their attention, he or she could consider moving to another platform.

SBDWolfSBDWolf likes this. 
  SBDWolfSBDWolf

I agree with your points @Retrogaming2084Retrogaming2084 though I'm curious as to what you mean by the collection running an overclocked version. Just the fact that it's less laggy or an actual framerate difference?

 
  sprivenspriven

i don't know that anyone has really done any framerate testing on the collection versions. and i can say that it does seem less laggy in area's but i dont really know for sure. i think some thorough testing should be done.

 
  Retrogaming2084Retrogaming2084

By "overclocked", I mean the anniversary collection doesn't lag. I'm not sure about the frame rate it runs at, though.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but I don't understand the interest in the Famicom reissue. The leaderboard is built around the North America NES release. Since the Famicom version grants an advantage, the default rom will change to the '93 reissue which is a massive shift. Allowing the Famicom release on the any% board gives all future runners a slight advantage over the existing times with heart countdowns, not to mention most people who play on hardware are going to have to switch from authentic cartridges to powerpaks with the Famicom rom.

All these factors together strike me as problematic.

These are just my opinions. I haven't heard from truefalse or the Castlevania supermods. There is no final decision, etc.

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