XSEED Normal any% re-planning
5 years ago

Clearly my WR is a billion years old and tons of new tricks and such have been found since. I just tried a route where you forgo killing spiders after Demi-Galba and just go for the flowers until you’re high enough to kill bombs, turns out getting to that level (9) takes 1′05″ on a good run which is technically slightly faster than grinding/farming spiders, but the lv1 Livart is ass for killing the moles so it probably loses time in the end, also it’s harder than pulling off Nightmare 100% deathless so I sure hope it’s not faster, I don’t wanna do it.

I looked at my Normal/Hard/NM runs and calculated more or less if the starting NM route would save time for Normal too, it seems to be very slightly worse but it’s hard to say. Stuff: 11′14″ v. 14′51″ Geis black screen 14′02″ v. 16′25″ exit Port = 2′48″ v. 1′34″ = −1′14″ 23′49″ v. 27′36″ exit peak = 9′47″ v. 11′11″ ≈ +13″ 13′40″ hard 25′25″ with 50″ death = 10′55″ so skipping spiders and lv2 Livart saves ≈ 1′14″ but then you lose too much going for the Wing and teleporting I guess… Note that my Normal run gets the Limewater mid teleport and picks up both the armor and shield at Grana-Vallis I think, and the other two runs don’t.

Night63 and I found out like yesterday that the Emelas Crown has a secret + 4 Luck bonus, and an all-Luck equipment might be best for the speedruns, you get a lot of crits. Rehdan Shield +3, Emelas Crown +4, Lucky Silver Coin +6. For Zonplas Galba Shield is a lot faster though, not sure how crit dmg calculation works. All-Luck seems good for the endgame though.

Lots of things to investigate and test, I’ll try to fill up my EXP calculation page with more minibosses and stuff to see if any grinding could be done better.

Edited by the author 5 years ago

Thinking of a skip spiders, straight to Galba Shield, level twice on flowers and go as usual route. Timings:

15″ from Port tele to Limewater entrance 25–26″ from Limewater entrance to Grana-Vallis entrance 4″03 from Port tele to wolf screen 7″90 first wolf screen, up 6″69 first wolf screen, left 4″44 from there to Limewater entrance 6″18 first wolf screen from Limewater side, up 7″67 second wolf screen, up 6″87 third screen to Grana-Vallis entrance 1′33″58 foot diving for Galba Shield only 46″ from Limewater entrance to Galba Shield (right after dialogue box) 47″58 from Galba Shield to exiting Limewater (makes sense…) 33″ going from Galba Armor to midpoint 37″40 going from first room grind to midpoint (Livart) 35″63 same thing Ericcil 30″06 from Galba Shield to midpoint Livart takes 15″90 to grab 2 levels from Flowers (to lv7) with godlike execution and it’s enough to destroy bombs 2019 Edit: normal way: lose 4″ from Port tp to wolves, lose 1″72 wolves room going up, lose ″94 or whatever from LC entrance to tp (probably actually 1″ or so) = 6″66 LC tp trigger early: lose ″94 going out of LC, lose 4″14 going to wolves = 5″08 I believe triggering the LC tp early is faster.

Also in my WR it took me 25″ to go from lv6 to lv7 on the spiders, so I could shave off some seconds if I disregarded them and went for the flowers instead. Requires really good Emel luck though, you still need 5 by Port Rimorge for lv2 Livart in the normal route.

Edit: I tried doing Grana-Vallis with the skip spiders, get Galba Shield route, and it took me 6′25″ from the flowers room to getting the Emel/level requirement (187Emel/169HP) kinda, it was all messy and I actually died on the last wave of moles. You do slightly less damage with Galba Shield than lv2 Livart, and also can’t use Rehdan Shield for the extra Emel drop chance so you need to get lucky and hope you have enough Emel before you level (I cut it real close in my attempt). No idea what this means yet but it’s written down now. Edit: Welp the same segment in my WR takes like 6′10″. :/ But wait a second, if I’m saving 1′14″ from skipping spiders, does that mean this is faster by like a minute? I think this route loses like a minute before Limewater Cave in WR: 1′14″ saved from spiders but in my WR I could’ve saved ≈ 5″ leveling with flowers from 6 to 7; 1′55″ lost to Limewater diving (like 45″ behind), then Grana-Vallis is like 15″ slower so 1′ behind but the WR still has to Limewater dive. So it would lose 14″ going from forging Livart to wolf room, + 6″69 going left, + 4″44 entering Limewater Cave, then 46″ for Galba Shield, then 28″76 to get to the midpoint (this saves time as it isn’t done in the other route)…other route would take 35″63 to get to the midpoint right after the farm/grind, so WR loses like 1′10″ meaning new route is 10″ ahead, but then it loses 7″ going to midpoint… jesus, this stuff is close. I need to grind Grana-Vallis some more with the new route to see what exactly the time is. Well damn… 6′34″44 new route Grana-Vallis with 147 Emel, but I noticed that for some reason I don’t have the Emel Mallet on this save so probably had enough Emel with it. But still, so slow… damn. :/ I question the grinding of moles in the last room though, there must be a better way. 7 moles killed in 20″46 = 1638 EXP Wing room good, should be able to get 7 bombs in 7″ or better = 3465 EXP in 21″ no Emel though 37″24 going from lv18 in this save (almost no extra EXP) to lv19 from bombs in the normal room (not Wing) much much slower with moles, 47″ and still no level Edit: I even got a 33″08 with decent execution at bombs. Can’t find a strat for Wing room. The one the JP WR uses requires Livart lv4…

Edited by the author 4 years ago

No idea why I didn’t have Zonplas’s EXP in my calculator but after looking into it, turns out my routing is overleveled. lv EXP 18 8404 19 7004 20 5836 21 4864

My run fights Zonplas at level 20, so it misses out on 2568 EXP. My run prioritizes EXP to get to lv20 to fight Zonplas, but it might be better to instead prioritize Emel and fight Zonplas at lv18 with maybe Livart lv5 instead of lv4… testing needs to be done… Tests: 50″24 lv18 lv4 cheating Zonplas in place 32″54 lv19 lv4 but I think I had 2 crits 20″60 lv20 lv4 again 2 crits 50″68 lv18 lv4 no crits lmao this luck 30″00 4 crits lv19 31″02 huh weird only 1 crit :/ 24″16 lv20 no crits but not perfect execution if you remove RNG it doesn’t seem worth it to level to 19, since it took me 37″24 on bombs. (Edit: 33″08 even.) Haven’t looked into how the EXP ends up though. 1′42″79 15 crits lv18 using Rehdan Shield, clearly inferior. lol Even deal 0 damage often. 45″20 lv18 lv4 with 2 crits. Killing at lv18 leaves you at lv19 with half or a little over half EXP. Killing at lv19 leaves you at lv20 with 1/4 EXP. Killing at lv20 leaves you at like, 1 enemy kill from leveling up.

Everything at Grana-Vallis seems to give 5 Emel which with Mallet is ×1.5 so 7, but flowers stay at 2 (1 + 1) due to flooring. Fireflies being the easiest to kill once you’re level enough, though moles may still be best due to combination of how many there are and the EXP… Edit: Moles seem to have a higher drop rate than fireflies too. Tested with full Luck, moles drop 100%, fireflies not quite. Even with Rehdan Shield the fireflies drop basically no Emel, and the EXP is crap compared to moles. Moles still seem best for Emel (bombs are probably better EXP, so they’d be good for Nightmare).

Tempering: lv Emel 2 5 3 13 4 34 5 88 6 230 7 600 8 1,540 9 4,010 10 10,900 11 100,000

I have no idea why I ever fought Zonplas at level 20, it seems totally overleveled. 19 might be optimal, or maybe 18. Edit: Might be leftover from when I didn’t grab Galba Shield, at that point level 20 might actually be good.

Edited by the author 5 years ago

Trying to test a new route which is basically NM route but improved thanks to the weaker Normal enemies. Skip spiders, kill flowers until 52 Emel (you’ll get to level 10 or almost, 111HP doing this, can destroy bombs). The flowers themselves take ≈ 1′30″ but it’s an RNG hellhole. Have had 1′38″, 1′27″24, and 1′37″, 1′18″20 with Galba Shield. Without it’s literal hell, almost impossible to do without dying, but with good RNG farming on the first runthrough should be a lot faster than NM route. After the farm you grab the Wing, teleport to Port, get lv4 Livart, grab Galba equips, teleport to mid Grana-Vallis. You now have lv4 Livart for grinding/farming, can do grinding in the Wing room if needed. I don’t know if this is faster or not, 1′30″ is kinda a long time to farm when you’re only saving ≈ 1′10″ from skipping spiders and lv2 Livart. But having lv4 Livart from lv10 for grinding/farming should save some nice time (and should make grabbing the Grana armor unnecessary, even though it might already be with good play). At lv10 with Galba Shield and lv4 Livart you 2-shot bombs, lv11 (117HP) OHKO. Already at lv14 (134HP) you kill moles very quickly (5 hits). At lv15 (140HP) it’s 4 hits. So I tried going through Grana while killing bombs after the flowers farm, by the Wing I’m already lv16 (146HP). I think this route is faster but it’s insanely hard and too complicated to time without doing an actual run.

Edit: timing from flower room to 51 Emel (rip) 1′52″92, finally did it without cheating I think. Don’t feel like that 1′27″24 was legit. lol Took me like 2 hours of attempts, good luck doing it in a run. I’m lv9 106HP with 1097 Next. Takes 1 bomb to level, requires a deep hit to kill I think. After that I guess you can keep destroying as many bombs as you can, I got up to level 13 129HP now (missed some). Got carried away grinding bombs and leveled to 20 before Zonplas, rip. Forgot there was still farming for 140 Emel to get Brillante lv5… that leveled me. Also retimed early dive strat, getting pretty consistently close to 1′30″ at the flowers. It seems slower by maybe 10 seconds: early dive loss: LC entrance to tp spot ≈ 1″, going back after Galba Armor ≈ 45″ (− ″94), going to mid after slimes ≈ 3″ = 48″06 no early dive loss: farming flowers = 20″?, grinding a few bombs maybe? = idk (probably very little), extra tp in LC ≈ 10–11″ = 31″, maybe some seconds more

also straight to Wing would lose 10–11″ from extra Grana entrance tp, like at least 10″? (got 12″21 in test but was bad and stopped a bit late) going from entrance through the flowers path, save 20″ farming flowers… wait a second, is it fucking faster? May not be faster for TAS, but it might be in human play wow… so there is no NM route improvement, NM route is perfect already. lol Low level flowers farming is just too slow/hard…

Also I really don’t know whether this route is faster than the old one I use in my PB. There are many improvements that could be made on my PB’s route like triggering LC tp, leveling on flowers instead of spiders (≈ 14″ vs 20″), not grabbing Banded Mail and probably more stuff.

Edit: OK so following NM route, you should be lv9 when teleporting to mid Mountain, you kill the bombs on the way and grind at Wing room until lv17 (152HP). You then go for the moles and 140 Emel, doing this I got to lv19 with 157 Emel. I used the Rehdan Shield. /// Eh tbh Wing room is SUCH good EXP that lv18 (157HP) might be worth it, fighting Zonplas at lv20. The extra level saves ≈ 20″ at Zonplas I think, but then you also have just overall more EXP and are higher level going to Ud-Meiyu etc. /// It took me 9″42 to go from lv17 to lv18 in Wing room. LMAO lv19 takes 19″22 though and you still end up lv20 for Zonplas so it seems optimal to get lv18 only. 2023 Edit: In my PB I barely get lv20 while grinding to almost lv19 at bombs.

Edited by the author 1 year ago

Can't wait to see a new run


Well there is a new run but it’s not from me!

I don’t think I saw anything new in it other than the skip near the end which saves ≈ 10–11 seconds only. Edit: at 56′35″ he also skips a cutscene where Ord is wounded by teleporting out of it! 31″ save there. Rest of the run has a whole bunch of differences compared to mine but I don’t think there’s anything too relevant that I didn’t already know. Oh yeah he gets double hits on Demi-Galba which I thought were too inconsistent to go for but apparently it’s possible. Edit: Oh and he annihilates the Ark in like 3 seconds with Capla even being 1 level lower than me. That’s probably faster than using it on Ernst, but makes the run much harder as Ernst is difficult to fight without it… Edit: Also he only kills 2 bees at the start and goes straight to Grana-Vallis from there. Considering he does NM route that makes sense as you don’t need the 5 Emel at the start of the game. I suppose killing 2 bees should be faster than 3 plants for the level, but killing plants is also pretty quick so who knows… and 3 plants are slightly more EXP I believe but probably doesn’t matter. Hmm it might be possible to kill 2 bees at the same time when they’re in a group though, and that might be really fast. Edit: You start the game 150 NEXT, plants are 50 EXP, bees 77 which × 2 = 154 more than 150 from 3 plants. Edit: Timed first plant room as ≈ 9″ without kill, + 1″62–1″78 with kill, and killing 2 bees is taking me long… 7″50–7″92 no kill and 14″19 2 kills even with a crit, I’m sure a TAS would go for bees but for a human 3 plants look faster to me. Just got 13″08 with a crit and hitting 2 bees at once while moving towards the correct exit (upright), super lucky. Even this might not be faster than 3 plants, lol.

Edit: Looking at vids I calculated the strat where you take damage before Geis loses ≈ 2″10 in the room, but thanks to RNG gains it back at Geis. 2 extra hits from Geis can take just ≈ 1″90 with perfect RNG, but that almost never happens. Much more often it’ll take 3+ seconds.

Edited by the author 4 years ago

First a quick note: you can teleport out of getting mirror fragments, but it just softlocks the game for Zonplas and Ud-Meiyu, and for Orjugan even though you can duplicate the fragment (and get infinite Capla from Olha as a result), can make it so you can pause during its battle (teleport anywhere that isn’t Lake and enter the battle from the normal route), it still seems useless. Teleporting after it dies skips the death cutscene if you do it late, and respawns Orjugan if you do it early so infinite Orjugan% is also a thing.

What I really wanted to mention was the bat farming for Emel. If we consider each extra room visit takes 17″ (rough estimate that I really should try and get more accurate Edit: 14″ is more accurate I think, no magic use), and each visit yields 1000 Emel, getting Brillante to lv10 from lv9 is an extra 3′07″ (11 visits, maybe 10 with good RNG). Does the extra level really save all that time against Orjugan and Lanaluna (and Romun fleet / Kishgal door bosses)? This needs investigation. On a similar note going for lv10 Ericcil instead would be + 51″ (3 extra visits), so I really don’t think this is a viable route. Even if Ericcil saved that much on Lanaluna (I don’t think so), it would still lose time at Orjugan and Kishgal, albeit maybe not very much. Edit: Just checked my run and it took me 2′20″ to farm for lv10 Brillante, I suppose 17″ for each visit was a bad estimate. // It takes the JP runner only 1′40″ to go from 4k Emel to 14k… damn maybe my farming is just slow, lv10 Brillante might be worth it if you’re fast.

I just tested fighting Orjugan lv37 (267HP) and lv9 Brillante… it’s very much doable. Still only takes 3 magics + a few normal hits to kill. I have no idea why I ever went for level 10. 2022 Edit: You need to go for lv10 because it takes forever to get lv37 anyway, so it’s not worth it to leave before grabbing a few more Emel. Also confirmed that while Lanaluna is more annoying and takes longer, is still very much killable with lv9 Brillante (only used 2 Herbs) and at most lv10 might save like, 1 minute maybe? I don’t even think the entire fight took me 2 minutes. Edit: Got 1′30″ with all Luck equip lv9 Brillante lv38 (273 HP). In my run it takes me ≈ 53″. Edit: 1′08″ all STR equipment, even without coin. Edit: 1′05″ using the coin instead of Wooden Bracelet with Galba Shield. Btw all these times used the Emel Mallet, so there was no Luck/STR mixing, I just tested full Luck vs. full STR (except for the last one). So: maybe Lucky Silver Coin is slightly better than Wooden Bracelet against Lanaluna, but how long does it take to get it…? Not getting it might be faster in the end depending on how much it costs, it doesn’t seem to save a ton overall. Getting the Lucky Silver Coin costs ≈ 40″ (without considering equipping it) and I honestly kinda doubt it saves all that time back. Who knows.

Kishgal grind: let’s say 6″ to kill 3 bombs and go back in/out (JP run time, he does it well) 1004 EXP × 3 3012 × 6″ Piana-Pullus is 29030 29030 ÷ 3012 ≈ 9.6 6 × 9.6 = 57.6″ teleporting to Port and killing Piana-Pullus is ≈ 40″ if done first try (lv44, Brillante + Ericcil magic and a couple attacks) 20″90 Gaposasura kill (lv41 Brillante lv10) Edit: 17″55 on a good run 9″16 getting back on track 6″57 going to it 36″63 total not grabbing the chest 27858 EXP 1205 bomb × 3 3615 27858 ÷ 3615 = 7.7 × 6 = 46″2 2022 Edit: I had the wrong Gaposasura EXP value. Correct: 26098 ÷ 3615 ≈ 7.2 × 6 ≈ 43″3 so Gaposasura is still faster, it took me ≈ 40–41″ in my WR with item both Gaposasura and Piana-Pullus are faster EXP than the Kishgal bombs it seems. There could be something wrong with my math, though… Also math’d that there’s no need to have high lv41 EXP before Gaposasura, you get all the levels you need without even killing a bomb, except for lv50 at Ark but as shown by JP runner that’s pretty irrelevant (this is with Starlight Medal). lv49 good enough, and depending on how much lv41 EXP you had you reach lv50 anyway. It seems the Ark quickkill only requires 3 Capla (lv49), so you can use 1 on Ernst I guess. Not fantastic… but better than nothing I guess. 2 Capla are almost enough actually, only takes 1 Brillante after the Ericcil spam. At level 50 2 might be enough.

Edited by the author 1 year ago

So I finally finalized the rough draft of a new route yesterday and got the WR back.

The run was absolutely atrocious and saved by the new route, of course. Sub 1:20′ isn’t hard and is my current goal.

I’ve also already improved the route further by going for Brillante and Ericcil lv7 and using 1 Capla Water at Piana-Pius, which should make the 1-cycle more consistent and just be faster in general because less time is spent on the slow slimes farm, and we can more quickly get to the bats instead.

I’m gonna have to test whether the Orjugan–Kishgal segment is faster with Brillante or Ericcil, since with this new route leveling Ericcil to 8 instead of Brillante doesn’t cost any extra time.

I’ve also got a few other ideas to improve the route, such as: ignoring the Rehdan Shield or using it in more boss fights… OK maybe not that many other ideas or I’m just forgetting them, but regardless there is still some work to do here and some strats to test.


I gave up on the double lv7 idea because you need to waste a lot of time getting EXP anyway, as getting 1800 Emel comes much earlier than lv28 or whatever’s needed for Piana-Pius (215HP). Maybe it’s possible to go a level lower, but I don’t think I even care to test that. I like the current route.

New 1:19′19″90 WR btw. I used the new timing of splitting at Ark death because that’s what my autosplitter does. As the only 2 current runners of the game (and WR holder) agreed on this timing in the other topic, I’m gonna assume this is official now.

I’ve tested a lot of things since my last post and I’ve been discussing on Discord, I’m not sure what the routing improvements have been since my last post but 1 is for sure: I’m not taking the Limewater Cave Capla Water because it costs ≈ 12″ to get it (unless my tests were wrong), and it doesn’t save that much on either Ernst nor Ark– extra Capla on Ernst saves very little, just makes it safer, while on Ark it saves ≈ 9″ so it’s not worth it. Oh, another thing is I’m using the Ud-Meiyu Capla on Piana-Pius in an attempt to make the 1-cycle easier, but I still lost 1 minute to that split in the run. lol. I fucking hate that boss. Oh and also, I’m not buying any healing items anymore. It’s really not necessary. You just have to be slightly careful at the start of the bats farm, and then they’ll drop way more Herbs than you’ll ever need. I tested that buying 1 Herb loses ≈ 7″, and an extra menu to equip a dropped one from a bat only loses ≈ 4″.

One thing I said in my previous post was testing not taking Rehdan Shield– I’ve given up even trying this as I feel even with it my drop luck is awful, so I don’t want to make it even worse. I have the feeling Ericcil might have better drop luck though, but I haven’t tested it. Testing stuff like luck is a bit bothersome, so while I’ll throw these ideas out there just in case, I don’t really feel like testing them and am content with the current route.

Edit: I’m pretty sure it’s possible to skip the Kishgal platform doing a dashjump special with Ericcil, but it’s impossibly hard. Maybe Livart magic can do it too but I’ve spent an hour trying and couldn’t (using 2 dashjumps to get extra speed).

Edit: Three things I’ve found out are faster since my run:

  1. refresh flowers once (52 Emel farm)
  2. dashjump magic before Lanaluna (I think it’s faster at least)
  3. dashjump out of Lanaluna room, I didn’t know you don’t need to wait for the girls in this room… Made a Lanaluna vid, 40″ with Brillante which is pretty good:
Edited by the author 4 years ago

New WR by the JP, 1:17′32″ old timing (would be 24″ with new).

I really can’t believe this guy is legit, that movement tech isn’t human. Anyway, whatever:

  1. He uses a new route to go from Galba Shield to LC mid, which only takes ≈ 28″ and is probably faster than going to mid first then back.
  2. This is minor but he does the glitchy Grana-Vallis climb in an earlier spot at the start, which I probably won’t even implement because I doubt it’s helpful considering it makes it less consistent
  3. He kills Zonplas minions when he can’t attack Zonplas, that’s smart as that’s free EXP and Emel (despite being very little).
  4. His Orjugan RNG was insane and his kill amazing. Might want to try going for that instead of using the magic ASAP.

His run is literally perfect. Not sure why his time is that bad, I guess mouse really is much faster. I’ll beat it back when I have time…

Edit: Oh yeah I also wanna test a different slimes farming strat, noticed a lot of blue slimes while watching Night do 100% attempts in the second room, to the right. Hmm… meh, seems pretty silly. There are more slimes but they’re not really fast to kill, and refreshing them takes a while.

Edit: Another thing I can improve is doing the Ud-Meiyu top route with mouse instead of keyboard. Both routes take about 11″, but that’s with killing the lasers in the bottom route (540 × 2 + 450 = 1530 EXP), the chest cutscene takes 5″ basically so taking the Capla loses maybe ≈ 6″ and the EXP. That EXP is made in 1 room of slimes (271 × 7 = 1897 ≈ 8″). Been thinking about not taking that Capla, since I’ve been trying Daifuku’s Piana-Pius 1-cycle strat and I’m not sure where to fit in an extra Capla in there anyway, and the extra menuing to equip it also loses 1 or 2 seconds (thought more lol). But then again, in my PB I was very low on Emel– not EXP, so the extra EXP might turn out to be irrelevant…

Edited by the author 4 years ago

I tested the Brillante + Ericcil lv7 strat 1 lv down for Piana-Pius and the 1cycle is basically impossible even with a Capla and wasting a lot of time to charge Ericcil magic before the fight. You’d also only have lv7 Brillante for the bats farm, so I think this strategy has been debunked… I tried looking into getting more EXP so you wouldn’t be a level down too, but it seems like it wastes too much time and ruins the whole point of the strategy being less farming. Edit: The extra level doesn’t even make the 1cycle easy either. XD lv7 Brillante is really weak ig…

Edit: Looked into fighting Gaposdhala and while 11924 EXP in < 30″ is pretty good, it takes 36″ to get there from TP and at that point just farming slimes breaks even in EXP and gives a lot more Emel. Farming en-route didn’t give me good results either, the rhinos and fish are too hard to kill and the Emel is little. You can fight Gaposdhala at lv25 with a Capla but all in all it took me ≈ 2′10″ to get to lv27 (you need 28) and still missing over 1k Emel for even the double lv7 strat. In my PB it takes ≈ 3′30″ to be Piana-Pius ready, comparing after TPs. /// ≈ 3′42″ actually I think and had crazy RNG.

Edit: Looked at the LC slimes grind… Ravi’s spot is maybe better for EXP, but not Emel imo, Harumaki uses it in his Nightmare WR and maybe it’s worth there but not for Normal. I’ve speedrun the normal spot a bit and at best it took me 3′ flat to get the necessary level, then 48″ for the Emel. XD Fastest method seems to be walk upleft Jump+Attack, then 2nd and 3rd charge to kill the 3 slimes under you. I legit keep getting the level while having only 1800 Emel… enough for double lv7 strat and super far from lv8. Should I really be going for double lv7 if I get this abysmal RNG? It keeps happening… I legit just got lv29 before the required Emel. What in the absolute fuck? It almost takes like 50″ to go from 1800 Emel to 2375… hmm

Oh yeah forgot to mention I looked into Ud-Meiyu too. lv21 (1 level lower) is ≈ 10″ slower than lv22, fastest kill seems to be double slash from lava, no 3rd slash. Magic used at start and end.

Tested doing Zonplas at lv19 and it seems slower. Gains ≈ 20″ from not grinding bombs as much, but loses ≈ 10″ at Zonplas and Ud-Meiyu each, while being lower level.

So I’ve realized routing for 1cycle Piana-Pius is stupid, as it only saves ≈ 14″ and is too hard to even do in a run anyway. for 2cycle lv28 and lv7 Brillante + Capla is all you need. With that in mind, I’ve tested the bats farm with lv7 vs. lv8 Brillante and lv7 loses ≈ 20″, it seems (2023 edit: it’s more like 25″, and it also makes the grind much harder to survive). So the double lv7 strat should finally be proven faster. :D lv7 Brillante only requires 830 (+ 5) Emel, but since you need lv28 EXP becomes the bottleneck, and you usually get enough Emel for double lv7 (1805); even if you don’t it doesn’t matter because Brillante lv7 is enough on its own. Best lv28 grind 2′52″ with ≈ 1300 Emel. Saves 38″ over my PB so even if we consider 1cycle it should still save time over lv8 as 14″ + ≈ 20″ = 34, 38″ − 34″ = 4″ saved.

Tested grinding less at bats but that seems like a fail. Edit: 2′47″ slimes grind ≈ 1100 Emel. Good to see going for just Brillante lv7 saves a lot of time at least… 43″ over PB. /// This time is either sus or insane. I’ve found a slightly faster way to grind (walk up, charged to right to kill 2, walk slightly down charged up to kill 3) but it’s harder as well. /// Why did I suddenly get better RNG and a faster time when I started using DxTory to force 61fps… wtf /// 2′48″ lv27 1935 Emel (double lv7) insane RNG /// 2′58″ lv28 900 Emel like how tf did I do 11″ faster back then. lol

Tested Ud-Meiyu routes again: 15″ Capla to Hand 11″67 getting to jump platform with kills and 11″ without kills 6″57 going to hand 16″29 getting Capla to jump platform So current route is fastest, I thought Capla to Hand might be faster… I was wrong. First route has 5 kills, second 4, but the kill isn’t worth the time loss. 8″ vs. 12″40 killing lasers in corridor, it kinda loses 0″88 per kill and you need 12/13 to level up, so in terms of speed it’s kind of even but the fact you have a lot more EXP should save time going into the slimes grind.

Edited by the author 1 year ago

Tested farming fireflies instead of moles for Emel like the 100% WR, took me 31″76 compared to my PB’s 47″ (3705 EXP) at moles, but you lose out on a lot of EXP (20 vs. 195 per kill). /// 40″34 (560 EXP) now uh… /// 47″01 :( (600 EXP) ok nvm this is barely faster I guess. /// 34″60 and 35″86 at moles lol (3120 EXP). Basically you kill 6 fireflies per room but their drop rate is a little lower, and 4 moles per room, fireflies are a little faster to kill, so with avg RNG fireflies are faster but lose so much EXP that I think they end up being slower just because of that. Edit: The fireflies drop rate is so low that even with the new no Rehdan Shield, EXP not an issue route it’s much faster to farm moles.

I was thinking of using Catastrophe mode which would save ≈ 15″ from taking Capla at Mythos Path instead of the beach glitch, but some issues: Piana-Pius is a problem, Lanaluna is harder but doable, Gaposasura can actually kill you and idk if doable, need to actually play Kishgal properly to not take dmg, Ernst much harder idk if possible. Piana-Pius with Brillante lv7 without Capla is impossible even to 2cycle, guess I’m not doing Catastrophe.

I’m sad but I think I’m not gonna do the lv7 Brillante strat. Piana-Pius is too hard. …That opens up the option of doing Catastrophe though.

Taking Starlight Medal costs ≈ 26″, and it only saves ≈ 2″ at -Roa, Ernst, Ark each; but without it you miss out on level ups by like 100 EXP so you have to kill a couple extra enemies, I think it’s faster to not get it but Ark 1cycle becomes hard (451HP left best attempt) and Ernst with Herbs is impossible, needs 2 Capla.

Taking Capla is technically just a waste of time, opening a chest is almost 5″ and a Capla never saves that much on a boss, Ernst with Herbs is doable if I could kill Gaposasura without wasting them all and do Kishgal damageless. Years ago I wrote Capla actually saves time for Ark but I’m not seeing it rn. 2023 Edit: Even the 3″ kill with 3 Capla loses time because it only saves ≈ 13″ and just opening 3 chests costs 15″.

Maybe to make Catastrophe more viable I could grab the Bloody Nail, but that might cost like ≈ 10″ to grab and equip so then I’d only be saving ≈ 5″ lol.

So now I’m thinking of doing lv7 Brillante Piana-Pius because RNG Emel is literally insane, I’ve gotten the level with only 1530 Emel, getting lv8 actually takes so much time unless you have godly RNG. lv7 Piana-Pius strategy: You NEED perfect RNG on the first lunge, use magic then spam lunges, only use the Capla to heal after you’ve taken 2 hits. On 2nd cycle, stay in the hole where the chest appears, use the magic as Piana-Pius lunges at you and spam lunges. This is the best strategy I could come up with, I’ve tried keeping the first magic to dodge an attack because staying alive is really hard but it messes with your DPS and you end up not 2cycling.

Taking Rehdan Shield costs ≈ 8″, but I tested the bats farm without it and you lose a literal minute. Pics: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347785330205786113/1089544750895468624/image.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347785330205786113/1089545777585602581/image.png

Edited by the author 10 months ago

I’ve finally tried determining whether early LC dive is truly slower than Wing first or not. I tried thinking of what all the differences between the 2 routes are and timing them, while disregarding all sections that would be the same.

early LC dive time loss: ≈ 2′20″ LC dive ≈ 2″ extra pause to equip items 1′ 52 Emel (time start after picking up last Emel in first flower room, ends at regaining control after chest) but you can start grinding bombs on the way up… = 3′22″ time loss

Wing first time loss: 34″ climb to accessory slot chest in PB 2 extra TPs ≈ 22″ 39″ + ≈ 50″ = 1′29″ my PB’s LC dive to after chest ≈ 6″ of Grana entrance again movement ≈ 40″ getting 52 Emel and this was a bad split (time start after picking up last Emel in first flower room, ends at 52 Emel) = 3′11 time loss

I could not quantify the time save in early dive route of grinding bombs while climbing to Wing, but it’s probably only a few seconds and the difference between the routes is ≈ 11″… so unless I’m missing something, I think early dive is slower (and harder).

Edit: Tried routing skipping the accessory slot in Ud-Meiyu’s dungeon, which pretty much means you play without Wooden Bracelet. It takes ≈ 20″ to get it + 1 kill, skipping it takes ≈ 9″ so it saves 11″. You kinda need the experience though (unless you skip the Capla), and having −2 STR/DEF throughout the game is probably really bad. I tried checking how much dmg difference that is, and it’s not simple but it’s roughly −2dmg dealt and +2dmg received, probably more. Each level up is +3 STR (+4 sometimes) and +3 DEF so it’s almost like being a level lower.

Tested lv4 Brillante for Ud-Meiyu, takes ≈ 1′17″ just to kill the boss so definitely slower.

Double lv7 lv27 1 Capla 2-cycle Piana-Pius might be fastest but it’s way too much Emel RNG. I’ve decided on Brillante lv7 lv28 1 Capla 2-cycle.

I’m gonna dump HP/STR/DEF at each level since I went through writing it out and idk where to post it: base: 60 25 30 lv1 60 40 36 lv2 65 43 39 lv3 71 46 42 lv4 77 49 45 lv5 83 52 48 lv6 88 56 51 lv7 94 59 54 lv8 100 62 57 lv9 106 65 60 lv10 111 68 63 lv11 117 72 66 lv12 123 75 69 lv13 129 78 72 lv14 134 81 75 lv15 140 85 78 lv16 146 88 81 lv17 152 91 84 lv18 157 94 87 lv19 163 97 90 lv20 169 101 93 lv21 175 104 97 lv22 181 107 100 lv23 186 110 103 lv24 192 114 106 lv25 198 117 109 lv26 204 120 112 lv27 209 123 115 lv28 215 126 118 lv29 221 130 121 lv30 227 133 124 lv31 232 136 127 lv32 238 139 130 lv33 244 143 133 Page which calculates all values to lv60: http://alaktorn.wrvids.com/Ys_VI_Stats.php

Edited by the author 1 year ago

Just did a horrible derusting run but it gave me some new ideas. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347785330205786113/1112026004882472980/image.png

Testing Piana-Pius without Capla (saves 5″ from chest alone, gains 3 kills of EXP): playing with 5 Chito Nuts seems pretty doable for Piana-Pius my PB has 4 Nuts and 3 Honey 20HP and 50HP so 150 total with the Honey 5 Nuts are 100, 4 might be enough even so yeah it looks doable without the Capla… that’s interesting… gonna be some annoying RNG though survived with 183HP, bad RNG both cycles lol kills 3 extra enemies that’s 450 × 3 EXP 1350 1 room of slimes is 5 271 each 1355 lmao it’s literally an extra room worth of slimes grinding, meaning ≈ 7″ saved so it saves about 12″ total Edit: My latest derust did Piana-Pius first try with 3 Chito Nuts, survived on 6HP.

Also I found out you can jump + magic an Orjugan hand and damage it with the magic. Has a nice fight in my derust, might clip it later or something. Also against Ark it’s probably better to not spam magic immediately on 2nd phase and instead just do slahes while you can, then magic during the beam attack. Edit: You can hit the Ark during the beam attack with dashjumps to the side… (left side best?). You can lunge to hit the very first part of phase 2 but only with Brillante, so the glitch combo thing doesn’t work. Orjugan fight:

I tested a run without Starlight Medal and it doesn’t seem very plausible, the biggest problem is Ark 1 cycle (I’ve written before it saves ≈ 26″ to skip it): 1lv down Piana-Pullus, still fine (Livart double dashjump ~ magic) lower level throughout Kishgal which probably costs a couple seconds + having to kill 2 extra bombs and some flamethrowers costing some more seconds 1lv down Galba-Roa losing a few seconds especially phase 2 2lv down Ernst is surprisingly still killable with just 2 Capla Water but no magic for Ark 1lv down Ark without magic, kept 1332 HP with bad RNG last beam… with good RNG it’s possible, but this isn’t something I wanna do in a run.

Getting Emelas Crown is actually slower imo: waste 5″ (more with good pathing) + some more to kill a few bombs to get Emelas Crown for slightly more crits and survivability skip all that and get lv50 for Ark (meaning you keep Starlight Medal equipped), but make Roa/Ernst slower + harder

My derust run did the latter and golded Ark without having any charged Magic, only used Ericcil once on phase 2 after taking dmg, but I needed 1/3 RNG. Roa becomes several seconds slower without the crits, also kills you in like 3 hits. Ernst isn’t that much different I think but still a bit slower due to lower DPS. For runs I’ll grab it if I kill Gaposasura close to the chest, but if I have to backtrack to it (optimal kill) I’ll just skip it. Edit: I’ve started switching the Starlight Medal for Wooden Bracelet in runs but I’m not sure what’s faster. This means we need to kill a few more enemies (≈ 3″ loss) and then switch Starlight for Wooden (≈ 1″ loss), but it makes Roa and Ernst easier + faster. I also golded Ark doing this and keeping 1 Capla for it because Ernst was easy enough that I didn’t need it… I also just barely got the Ark 1-cycle with Brillante + Ericcil magic and bad RNG. Without 2 magic it’s impossible if you get bad RNG, and even with it it’s something that has like 25% success rate.

Edited by the author 10 months ago

Did a whole bunch of tests and wrote on Discord about possibly skipping the Emel Mallet. It seems to be slightly faster, but I’m not sure, and it also makes the run much harder: so this was the time save for skipping Mallet (20″ beach, 11″5 getting it, 14″ getting Ud-Meiyu accessory slot) also skipping Rehdan Shield saves ≈ 8″ so 53″5 saved total from skipping Mallet and going Brillante lv9 the time loss in just the boss fights is… 20″ Orju 10″ Lana 8″ Gaposasura = 38″? there is more time loss at example Moles, Slimes, and Kishgal door fights but it’s hard to quantify and probably very small meaning… it’s maybe faster to skip Mallet, but certainly harder also keep in mind… beach split can be improved a lot with better glitch strats, but I haven’t found setups to make them consistent

So basically skipping Emel Mallet but going for lv10 Brillante I’ve tested is a lot slower (took me 1′14″ for 5500 Emel with Rehdan Shield, 1′22″ in another attempt I forgot if it had Rehdan or not, probably did). Which means if we’re skipping it we gotta go lv9 Brillante, but still need the same levels or the bosses become impossible. But not needing Emel means we can also skip Rehdan Shield (8″ saved I wrote in the past), and not needing to equip the Mallet means we can skip the Ud-Meiyu accessory slot (14″ saved but misses 1 kill of EXP).

Edit: Uhm… unexpected time save…? I just did the bats grind in 2′59″ by just going for lv9 Brillante. That’s ≈ 50″ faster than my derust… (3′50″). Does this mean skipping Emel Mallet is actually a lot faster? I really didn’t expect being able to use Galba Shield over Rehdan Shield would save SO much time… like what…? It’s ridiculous… well that and the not needing to run around the room collecting 11k Emel ig…

Orjugan becomes a lot harder because lv9 magic is shorter so you have to walk closer to hit it with it, and it requires 3 magic + a lot of bat hits or 4 magics + a tiny bit to kill. I’ve also found out bat dmg is determined by your STR, Livart whirlwind is really good at hitting them back but at lv4 it deals 0 dmg.

Edited by the author 10 months ago

Did another derust with the new no Emel Mallet route. From Orjugan on it’s harder and it shows, I died a bunch. I was ≈ 2′ ahead of my PB if you don’t consider the first split I messed around with, so the route looks good I think. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347785330205786113/1114594185727721482/image.png

After it I figured out taking Rehdan Shield actually saves time even just for the moles even if you were to just go for 88 Emel for Livart lv5, which is slightly faster up until the slimes grind but I don’t think there’s a fast way to do that without Brillante so it doesn’t work out. I practiced getting double hits against Demi-Galba and it seems doable. Had a 30″ fight with 0 crits (my gold is 29″ with 1). Had a completely insane Zonplas RNG in that derust gold, will upload the vid. Might upload the Demi-Galba fight too to show off double hits.


1:15′37″ WR with new route:

Mistakes: Demi-Galba death, grinded 1 level higher for Piana-Pius for safety, was slightly 1lv lower for Lanaluna, bought Meat, forgot to charge Brillante for Galba-Roa, multiple deaths at Galba-Roa (how?!), death at Ernst, death at Ark. I’m surprised the new route is this slow, I was expecting a 1:14 at least, which tbh I would’ve gotten if Galba-Roa didn’t suddenly start killing me when it never happened before…

I need to check whether the .5 level at bats is worth it, it cost me ≈ 14″ and it doesn’t really save any time at Lanaluna (maybe 2″ or so). The problem might be Gaposasura though, need to test whether you can kill more Romun soldiers to get the level anyway. Edit: Tested without extra EXP: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347785330205786113/1118625068713525381/image.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/347785330205786113/1118625081099292834/image.png Could only kill 1 more soldier. Need 4 for level. So I think you need to kill at least a few extra bats for EXP… maybe just 1 extra room refresh, if it takes 2 might as well just keep going like in my WR I think. I haven’t tested Gaposasura down 1 level though, maybe if it doesn’t lose like 10″ it could be faster… that’s only with the buying Meat route though, which I assume most if not all future runs will do just because it’s so much safer and only loses like 10″.

Edit: I re-run the Kishgal bombs calculations and it seems to break almost even with Gaposasura (≈ 40″) + 10 Meat buy (≈ 10″). If I try the 1 level down route, maybe at that point it’d be best to straight skip Gaposasura and the Meat… in my old bombs calculation I wrote the wrong EXP for bombs in my first calculation somehow… Anyway: 1205 (bomb EXP) × 3 3615 = 1 room 26098 (Gaposasura EXP) ÷ 3615 ≈ 7.2 rooms needed, or ≈ 21.6 bombs (so 22) 7 rooms × 6″ = 42″ but the very first room refresh has an extra ≈ 1″ so 43″ I guess So yeah I think Gaposasura is only worth it if you have like 7 Herbs and are lv41, if either of those isn’t true just grind bombs. If you have like a god run you can still buy 9 Meat and play it safe so you have Meat for Galba-Roa too (and don’t randomly lose 1 minute lol).

Edited by the author 10 months ago

New route, new WR 1:13′11″.

About the run: SUPER happy to finally hit such a nice time after days of grinding. This WR has taken me the longest out of any I’ve ever done in this game, maybe any game. A bit of a pity missing the Kishgal dashjump cost me the 1:12′, though (I really should practice that…). I played it very safe, doing stuff like skipping the Lanaluna early magic hit (Edit: with Brillante lv9 you miss some dmg if you do it early though), buying 9 Herbs 9 Meat, not going for fast cycles at Piana-Pius, not using magic to save time at Galba-Roa and keeping it for safety for Ernst, and not doing the Ark dashjump so if you’re insane there’s technically some time save there. Had bad RNG at moles (10 rooms instead of the standard 8, 7 is possible with great RNG), bad RNG at slimes which cost me extra kills and extra menuing to equip Rehdan Shield (≈ 30″ loss), bad RNG at Orjugan bats (sometimes they’re on a “fast” cycle sometimes on a slower one, you want the fast one so you can kill with 3 magic + bats easily), bad RNG at Lanaluna (2 rolls, 1 is average, 0 is best) but I also played it poorly because I slipped a lot and didn’t kill before the 3rd RNG attack. Also I just realized I missed most of my 3rd magic and it took me 4 to kill Orjugan… that was weird…

Possible improvements: I’ll put this here just to have it documented but it’s not much of an improvement more so of a different method for slimes grind, movement RNG is what determines speed here anyway; you can walk up a bit and kill the 2 on the right, then walk down and kill all 3 above you but it’s fairly inconsistent. Edit: Doing this with 3 charged slashes instead of 2 is still faster:

  1. Maybe killing some flowers while going up the mountain would be faster? Needs testing. Edit: This is only faster for TAS imo, my best attempt took ≈ 2′50″ to get 52 Emel and get to Alma chest, and current route only takes ≈ 2′40″ (59″ to Alma, 11″ extra tp, 1′30″ for 52 Emel). My best attempt at the first room was 18″ faster than that though, and my second room there wasn’t even good, so I definitely think it’s faster if done well but too hard to do (I’m technically not accounting for the menuing to equip Wooden Bracelet but that’s only like 3″). Video:
  2. Galba-Roa 1 level down, remove all Kishgal grind? (the 6 bombs and 4 360° shooters) Edit: This seems slower, the level up is really quick to get.
  3. I think I calculated that technically getting the Ud-Meiyu accessory slot is faster because it removes a bunch of menuing. Edit: This is only true if you equip Wooden Bracelet before Piana-Pullus (+ ≈ 2″) otherwise taking it loses 8″ while only saving 7″ (″45 from putting Bell in empty slot, 1″6 from not needing to switch Bell for Wooden Bracelet before Orjugan, 5″ from Kishgal accessory chest).
  4. I’m actually messing up by swapping Wooden Bracelet back in right after bats, I should wait to get to Lake so the equip and teleport are done in 1 menu instead of 2.
  5. Maybe keeping the magic to kill Ud-Meiyu while it’s falling from the sky is faster than killing it with the glitch? It looks like its death is not registered until after it touches the ground anyway, so dealing dmg while it’s falling down should save time. Edit: Yep, this saves time, got a kill with only 4 triple specials but it requires near-perfect execution plus crit RNG, so in a run I’d go for 5 instead:
  6. LC dive early might actually be faster. I’ll put the latest calculations I’ve made at the bottom of the post. Doing the early 52 Emel is still the fastest though.
  7. No idea how I missed this but buying 9 Meat after Orjugan makes no sense. O_o You can buy before Orjugan on the way to making Brillante lv9, it saves a couple of seconds.
  8. Early Ericcil lv2 is actually bad, it gives you 1 extra scrolling.
  9. Killing fireflies as you walk across the room is actually faster, can save 2 moles rooms (18.5 avg Emel) and only loses ≈ 8″ if done well, basically 1 moles room for more Emel. I’ve had enough Emel in 4 moles rooms but that felt like an RNG bug, literally permadrops; average is 6/7 rooms (compared to 8). This might require you to hit near-perfect 5 bombs rooms though or you might lack EXP.
  10. Pretty minor but dashjumps are faster for Galba-Roa phase 2 instead of upthrusts as shown in my Nightmare video; it’s much easier to double hit with them. Ericcil special attack would also be faster phase 1 I think but I’m not good enough at mashing…
  11. Another minor ≈ 1″ improvement at Kishgal, new route going to the bottom of the room.
  12. Skipping all Capla and just buying 1 time (2 Herbs for Pius and 4 Meat for Ernst, 3 are enough but much harder; costs 6.8k Gold). Also doing Ernst with Starlight Medal so you’re 1 level higher for Ark making the 1cycle more consistent (since you have no Capla to get 3 magics for it).
  13. Minor strategy improvement at Demi-Galba, not jumping out during arm swings.

Tips and tricks: First of all I play windowed so I use Dxtory to force 61fps otherwise some glitched jumps don’t work, and ClipCursor2 to limit my mouse to the game window so I don’t randomly click outside it.

  1. Set up your menus before starting a run. What you last picked in a menu is remembered by the game so you want your first menu to be on Inventory and Wing of Alma and Limewater Cave so you can just mash your first tp. I’m less sure about this but I think you also want to set up your Equipments so you’re either on Shield/Armor or Accessory to make that faster after the LC dive, and you also want your equipped Items to be selecting Herbs (if you’re using my route where I need to equip Herbs anyway). The way to do this is to first set up the Herbs because that’s remembered, then you pick either Accessory/Shield/Armor whichever you feel is fastest and go back, go to inventory, tp to LC and get yourself killed so you can quit out to the main menu without changing any of the setups.
  2. Some loading zones are height-dependent, so it’s best to trigger them with a lunge rather than a dashjump; examples: Ruins first staircase, Romun staircases (going downwards). Speaking of loading zones, pay attention to my Escape split and how I stop moving at the earliest possible moment to trigger them as fast as possible (Adol’s distance to the girls matters). Also speaking of cutscenes, wherever Adol is walking in a cutscene, that’s slow, so you want to minimze that time, be it by dashjumping during the trigger or by positioning yourself as close as possible to where Adol wants to be when triggering the cutscene (for example at Ark you don’t wanna jump up as fast as possible because then Adol has to walk a long way, or when opening Livart/Brillante doors, etc.).
  3. After a teleport you can mash dashjump and it’ll work ASAP, this is most visible/useful at the first tp of the game where you can easily do 2 upward dashjumps without talking to the NPC if you mash, while no runner has ever been able to do it while timing it (at least on video). Similarly useful to avoid talking to the Rehdan NPC, but that one is actually harder and I still fail it while mashing sometimes. Also similarly, you can kinda do the same after dialogues but if you mash too fast you’ll get a “stunted” (slower/bad) dashjump so don’t mash too fast. This isn’t always true though… for example during the Geis cutscene at the Grattheos Talisman place, you can mash dashjumps and it’ll work even though it has dialogue, so I don’t know exactly how it works.
  4. When tping you can press diagonals to make 2 cursor movements at once. For example from Port to Mountain you can just do Up + Right and do it in 1 input instead of 2.
  5. If you have trouble with a specific boss or trick or movement, go practice it until it’s not an issue anymore. This is true of everything in the run except for Piana-Pius, Piana-Pius will never not be an RNG bitch.

LC early dive: WR time loss: 12′08″ WR flowers enter, 12′35″ accessory chest so 27″ loss 10″ tping to LC almost less because it’s mashable, ≈ 14″ tping to Mountain entrance and equips 24″ total + 27″ 51″ total 15′04″5 start moving 15′10″4 flowers enter so 6″ loss, 52 Emel takes ≈ 1′23″ with good RNG, remove the 6″ walk and it’s 1′17″ = 2′14″ total loss early dive loss: 43″ from LC mid to entrance 1′33″ flowers enter to accessory chest so total 2′16″ loss, 2″ slower than WR route but I’m not accounting for the menu to equip stuff, nor the slightly longer distance from LC entrance first room compared to a tp, but I’m also not accounting for the time possibly saved from killing bombs while climbing the mountain…

Edited by the author 6 months ago