Xenogears Forum  /  Examining Other Xenogears Rules - Please add your input.
  ChuckoritaChuckorita
(edited: )

Hello all, it's an exciting time for Xenogears speedrunning and I feel it's time to re-examine a few topics that are unrelated to the new glitches and skips. pidge and I have our own personal opinions on some things that should be changed and we would like to bring these issues up. They are as follows:

Turbo

Currently, the status quo is that Turbo is only allowed in some categories, and is particularly banned in Any% and Any% NMG. We would like to allow Turbo in all categories, with a new column added in the run information to show whether Turbo was used. While other games, such as the Legend of Dragoon, have gameplay mechanics that give Turbo a large advantage over regular mashing, Xenogears has no such mechanics and the only advantage is automatically advancing text. In addition, we all know Xenogears is an extremely text-heavy game with comparatively little amounts of gameplay for extremely long sections. Grinding runs out by having to mash for such extensive lengths is not only tedious and annoying but causes wrist wear and could lead to repetitive stress injuries, and the low amount of autoplaying cutscenes makes for very few bathroom and food/water breaks. There are also officially licensed turbo controllers released by Sony, making it an officially provided option. We believe that allowing Turbo will make the game more accessible by automating parts with little or no gameplay, sacrificing very little in terms of skill but allowing the runner to take better care of their body.

Timing end

Currently, the status quo is to end timing at "THE END" after the credits. I would like to bring up the idea of changing this to end timing earlier. It seems to be a relic of Japanese standards and I would personally like to make it more in line with most other English version JRPG standards. After talking with pidge we have two ideas for doing so:

1) Ending time when the Urobolus battle screen fades to white. This would be close to a "last hit" standard while avoiding ambiguity in not knowing if a certain hit is going to be the last one.
2) After Urobolus, ending time on last text input before credits roll. This would be the last input of the game and it is completely unambiguous.

If timing end is changed, all runs will have their times edited to reflect the new timing method.

Allowing sessions for long categories

Currently, splitting runs into multiple sessions is banned in all but the miscellaneous "Session%" category. While this is the status quo in almost all games, Xenogears is a particularly long game, with some categories exceeding 24 hours, a grueling task on a human body to do in one sitting. We would like to suggest allowing doing such categories in multiple sittings to allow them to be more inclusive and allow better self care for runners who wish to speedrun these tasks. If this is to be allowed, which categories should this be allowed for? Should it be based on length or decided by category directly?

Please let us know what you have to think about these topics.

 
  [user deleted]

I'll go ahead and break down my opinion in relation to this thread. I started running Xenogears in 2016, ran it for a little over 2 years before IRL things took over and didn't allow me to speedrun it anymore. Back then, I wanted a legit run without a turbo controller, in Summer of 2017, I got a full Xenogears run completed in a little over 20 hours, needless to say, this was rough on my body.

Turbo

Japanese communities have allowed turbo since however long ago that was. I personally didn't agree with some smaller RPGs that are around 2hrs long, but for a game as long as Xenogears? It makes a lot of sense. There's only like 3 parts in the run where you can get up and go to the bathroom or get something to snack on and all those are at like that last third of the run (Solaris and onward). This was very rough on my body. Really the only things I had to eat and drink during that run was apples and coffee, for the rest of it though, I was very hungry. There's a bunch of long cutscenes where mashing is a must and it'd be a great oppurtunity to eat and go to the bathroom during these ridiculously long cutscenes with a turbo controller.

Timing end

I've always thought of having the timing end on the final hit on Urobolus, it never made much sense to me why we'd need to stop on 'The End' screen, this is traditionally saved for Japanese RTA speedruns (time starts on power on, ends on returning to title screen/FIN/The End , etc. The final cutscene after the last hit is almost 14mins long. I already timed everyone's runs if we stuck to the final hit (after the damage numbers show up):

Any% Glitched:
Chuck's 14:02:45 would be 13:48:48

Any% NMG:
Cord's 17:48:23 would be 17:34:29
UG's 18:39:42 would be 18:25:34
30Cents (my run)'s 20:09:26 would be 19:55:26
johannhowitzer's 20:14:51 would be 20:00:?? (no video, so I cannot time this accurately)
Highspirits' 22:22:39 would be 22:08:32
Endymion's 23:57:24 would be 23:43:?? (again, no video)
Johnsheperd's 31:57:12 would be 31:42:53

100%:
Cord: 29:49:48 would be 29:35:54
30: 43:54:26 would be 43:40:28

Any% Fast Text W/ Turbo:

PetrolVB: 10:25:36

As for the final input after "Elly...." if would be these times:

Any% Glitched:
Chuck: 13:50:22

Any% NMG:
Cord: 17:36:10
UG: 18:27:23
30: 19:57:11
johannhowitzer: 20:01:?? (no video)
Highspirits: 22:10:25
Endymion: 23:44:??
Johnsheperd's: 31:44:44

100%:
Cord: 29:27:35
30: 43:42:12

Any% W/Turbo:

PetroleVB: 10:26:19

If I mistimed something, apologies^^

I won't be including the Japanese times because I believe that the timing should end on "The End' based on the traditional timing of JP RTA speedruns. I've also left out timing most of the misc categories, whether those merge into the other categories, is still to be discussed.

Allowing sessions for long categories

I went into a bit of this in my turbo section, but I'll explain it more in-depth here. Xenogears is without a doubt one of the longest Any% speedruns. Sitting between 17-22 hours for an Any% run is really overwhelming, even if you're healthy, no one should ever play for that long. While there is already a sessions category, it's been very lacking with only me and Johnsheperd running the categories. I'd honestly be okay with merging Any% with sessions, it'd probably even bring me back to run the game. Just how many sessions should be maxed out, is up for debate. 100% was the hardest speedrun I've ever done, not because of the difficulty of the category, but the endurance part.

Took me well over an hour to write this, hopefully something comes out of it. On a side note, I would like to be at least a 'verifier' for this game. I know there is Cord, Chuck and Pidge, but Johann has been MIA on and off on this site for a couple years. Doesn't need to happen, but I don't think it'd hurt.

Please do message me if you got anything else to talk about.

 
  PetroleVBPetroleVB
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Turbo
I've already set my mind on this on the other post, I'm ok with it 🙂

Timing End
I kinda agree also. I think it would be more logical to put it at the last input in my opinion, as it feel strange to end the timer at Urobolos but still have textbox to input ? But it's just feeling and I'm ok with both as well

 
  EthosbenderEthosbender

I am for all of it

ChuMogpoChuMogpo likes this. 
  ChuMogpoChuMogpo

Interesting thoughts. I have just gotten into the mood for playing Xenogears (hence my the first six letters in my name lol) and I would like to do a speedrun. I doubt I can do a speedrun in one sitting, but I could definitely do a Session run. I'm quite thankful there a category for that in misc. It would be cool if 100% could be Session too IMO. Anyways I don't own Turbo now, but I may get it on Amazon if I decide to. Love all chu Xenogears runners. ❤️

 
  ffvd_gamesffvd_games

I haven't seen much discussion around the new kernel menu. Apologies if it's already been covered.

How will it be handled here on SRC, especially since it's possible on both English and Japanese and that it can shave several hours off the any% WR? I can't provide any input on this since I haven't ever touched the game, so I'm curious what the mods and actual runners have to say about it.

I do remember watching a Japanese TAS-er (kyotosagauoa on Twitter, known for SaGa Frontier) doing an any% run with the glitch on nicolive. He got a 7:58:20 ending time at THE END, 7:11 IGT.
Screenshot of the final time (from Palantir): https://twitter.com/Palantir_K/status/1286963784385347584?s=20

 
  KadMonyKadMony
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I took part in this routing with SaGa sennin, ffvd_games. This was ready even before the release of the glitch and uses the researches done with bif, notably with glitched equipments.

Unfortunately for the moment, Japanese Kernel Menu needs to use the Data Demo Disk sold with Chocobo no fushigina dungeon. In the view of this, I preferred to stick with US version, as using Cd from other games would then cover the any% save glitch category.

KrayzarKrayzar and ffvd_gamesffvd_games like this.