Proposed new category: No-Hide%
2 years ago
Maryland, USA

A few of us talked about this earlier today, but in a nutshell: this category would be Any% but you can't use the Thief's Hide ability, so you can't abuse that particular glitch.

Here's a (pretty bad) recorded run with some really basic notes & commentary on the strategy I used (solo Fighter seems optimal for this, but who knows, maybe there's another route or party composition that is faster):

ModerateJog likes this

Thanks for suggesting it and for the test run – I don't see why not (though from a technical standpoint the run is fairly similar to the current Any% – just slower). I wonder if with this run it may make sense to keep a magic-user who can cast Haste, which doubles the moving speed when inside dungeons.

Other potential categories could be 100% (whether including all minor caves and all items/spells or just all progression scenes), Damageless% (this would be quite toxic but definitely feasible), the meme category Fist% (no weapons or spells allowed, just bare hands)... and someone mentioned Cat%? ; )

rujasu likes this
Maryland, USA

Magic users just seem really awkward because of needing to rest to learn their spells and stuff.

Definitely think there should be a run that shows off more of the game. A true 100% all items/caves might be longer than I'm willing to go for, but I could see something where we hit all of the scripted overworld encounters (off the top of my head, I think it's the campfire north of the castle, the lizard camp in the swamp, and the Ascans in front of the temple).

And the meme category potential is endless, of course.

x_i13, Lance1601, and ModerateJog like this
United States

I'd love to see "as pacifist as possible." Like Ninja Gaiden, just necessary kills only. Something to mix it up.

rujasu likes this
Maryland, USA

Managed to cut No Hide% down to 32:01, could absolutely cut it down to sub-30 with more practice & better luck. I don't really talk over the video much, but some notes:

  • Lost a ton of time on the first split due to a pretty disastrous grind cave. Anthony's poor accuracy is on full display here, and this is the one part of the run I really want to practice more. Hitting the dragon is almost impossible, so I think the plan needs to revolve around avoiding the dragon & just killing the Fire Giant once or twice. I also grind a bit more than necessary here because fights are more dangerous with the weaker damage & accuracy.
  • Beastman caves go OK, but the Phobosuchus is a real problem when you can't just kill it in four hits. Anthony's high HP and AC make it survivable, but you can't really back up all that much or the troglodytes will start hitting you in the back. This might be the spot for Lance's strategy of killing off the trogs first, giving me room to kite the phobo around a bit.
  • I take a rest outside the scorpion/sabertooth cave, because obviously I'm not going to clear Azcan with only 9 HP, and Anthony can't use the "get into a battle and mash C" trick with the regen ring. If I didn't take a hit from the phobo, I probably wouldn't need to rest here. I still pick up the ring, in the hopes that it will save me from having to rest again later.
  • The way ModerateJog skips the scorpions/sabertooths doesn't seem to be reliable if you go to pick up the rings. I use a skip that is slower but more consistent and then fight the last one.
  • Somewhere I accidentally press my split button at the wrong time, so my splits are messed up for a bit while I'm in the temple.
  • I make a bunch of mistakes in the temple but get fairly good RNG.
  • Oltec Tradeway goes really well - this dungeon is consistent in Any% but a potential run-killer in No-Hide because Anthony just can not hit scorpions to save his life. Fortunately they only get a couple of hits off this time. I had a much better run going earlier which was wrecked by the scorpion room.
  • Graveyard Dungeon is still basically free in this category if you use the current Any% route.
  • Final dungeon is slightly more dangerous than Any%, but I have a lot of HP and take it as safely as possible. I get hit by the Fire Giant - perhaps I should try to kite it more - but I have enough HP to tank it. (I've never been able to get the Chimera skip to work, for the record, so I just fight it here.)

Let me know if you have any questions. The run is about what you'd expect. I like the fact that you spend more time playing the game and less time resetting until you get a first-try hide.

ModerateJog likes this

Thank you for making strides into this new suggested category : ) I look forward to give it a go myself some time soon.


I've created both the no-hide and the suggested overworld static encounters. For the static encounters, I went with having to actually complete the encounter. This will force overworld play which may change strategy a lot as Hide will not be so powerful in those. If you guys want to allow the save-load on the static overworld encounters, let me know. Should be a lot of fun changing things up

rujasu likes this
Maryland, USA

Thanks! I have submitted my 32:01 for No-Hide%, but I encourage the rest of you to take a crack at it - I'm sure that time can be beaten easily.

And of course, I'm already working on routing the All-Encounters run. Should be interesting to see how that turns out; feels like there are a number of potential approaches rather than just one really obvious path.

x_i13 likes this
New York, USA

So what about using an Elf instead of FIghter. You get Cleric HD 6-8, still get all the melee weapons, but then can use the Wand of Lightning on a few rooms. Since the wand has limited charges it does add more randomness to a perfect run, but it could save a ton of time in the Trog pile and climbing the Dark Elf realm. It also doesn't clog the screen with animations like spamming the bow does, but you have to be careful of bounceback.

I've been able to use it on the Fire Giant to get the kill. It sometimes takes two shots, its not consistent at all, and ideally you'd need to roll a wand with 4 charges or more (2 for Fire Giant, 1 for Trog Room, 1 for Elf Staircase) Otherwise it should only add 5 seconds to go get it. But it's a speedrun, so random % chance of success can be grinded.

Edit - I now realize that it's only feasible to get the Elf to level 5 by grinding the Fire Giant, as he needs 25000 xp for level 6 and 50000+XP for Level 7. That might not make it viable as the Fighter levels up so much faster and gets a better HP stat

Edited by the author 1 year ago
Maryland, USA

For what it's worth, I have done runs using classes other than the Fighter, usually just for marathon bidwars, but here's one where I ran as the Elf. Didn't get the Wand of Lightning, just did the Fighter route but with an Elf.

I don't think it would ever be competitive with the Fighter route, just because you have to roll a character at the beginning instead of taking the default party with a built-in strong fighter, but if I were to do an Elf run again, I'd think about picking up the wand, even if it might not save time.

Just to add that it's not uncommon to get runs whereby the wand holds 15+ charges, i.e. I don't think it would need that much grinding. Also, I watched that run Rujasu and I loved the commentary, you did a great job as always!

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