The World's Hardest Game Forum  /  Coolmathgames Any% (Locked)
  PzulaPzula
(edited: )

Welcome Hachimen! Great to see you here.

The rules do state that the run begins when the 'Play Game' button is pressed, although you could argue that one could return to the menu and use the level selector. It's also possible to beat Snubbyland version in just a few seconds as demonstrated by this gentleman:

I hope it is quite intuitive to folks that doing these things is not allowed for a valid run. Perhaps the rules need to be expanded to cover all these technicalities, or someone with greater knowledge on speedrun categories than myself can suggest a more appropriate category.

Also folks, I wouldn't recommend restarting your game entirely and having to endure a long intro every run. If that's your type of thing then maybe give something like Mario 64 a shot.

GameguySDGameguySD, ThatRaisinThoThatRaisinTho and 2 others like this. 
  cros107cros107

I don't see your problem with the current rulings, it's pretty obvious that skipping to the end is banned, and is a stupid idea for anything apart from a potential meme run. Both CMG and SL function the same in the fullgame mode, so I don't see why they should be separated, and the "cheap feature to skip levels" isn't even designed to skip levels, it's for practicing levels. No sane person would claim to beat the game using the level select menu.

ThatRaisinThoThatRaisinTho, hsbluehsblue and RioynerRioyner like this. 
  hsbluehsblue

im sure the mod will change the any% title to 100% soon. hitting the menu button stops the timer btw. having a category that can be beaten by milliseconds because someone moved there mouse a little faster would be silly. no one wants to waste there time on a little to no skill thing

 
  hsbluehsblue
(edited: )

timer starts when hitting start game to play the 1st level.
hitting menu resets the timer.
level select is the game devs helping out speedrunners and causal players. Its a cheat button. if you really want to you can speedrun using that trick.
it just wont be allowed in speedrun.com

do you need to have a percentage counter to get 100%? you do beat 100% of the levels and get 100% of the coins

 
  hsbluehsblue

I was talking about the live split timer 😕

marthasimonsmarthasimons likes this. 
  ThatRaisinThoThatRaisinTho

Dude. I think you can understand what he means. Even if you're not using a timer on screen, like I didn't in my run, you end up with a time at the end of the game, because that's what speedrunning IS, beating a game in the fastest time possible. So what they are saying is if you press the menu button, you won't be able to submit a run because your time isn't valid. You don't have to take everything so literal, you know what they mean.

hsbluehsblue likes this. 
  hsbluehsblue

the timer is needed to time the speedrun. its completely relevant to people who speedrun since it auto starts when you start lvl 1. Look man, this is about playing the game fast, not just selecting the last level. I don't know why you would be in a speedrunning community if you aren't even going to challenge yourself. It's redundant to publish a video of yourself just clicking level 30 while timed. Again, don't know why you're here if you're not gonna bother playing the game. What you want to do holds next to no weight in the speedrunning community.

ThatRaisinThoThatRaisinTho likes this. 
  JumpyluffJumpyluff

Just because one website who hosted the game changed features to have a level select doesn't mean that it's the best idea for any%. This all seems super silly to me

RioynerRioyner and hsbluehsblue like this. 
  PzulaPzula

Using Flash settings / tampering with the external software that the game runs on is not prohibited if you go strictly by the rules of the category, or is this simply an unwritten rule for all speedruns / a global speedrun.com rule?

I don't believe we need to rename the category. The rules already do say that the time starts when you press 'Play Game'. It could be added to the rules that returning to the main menu will terminate the run, or just use of the level select is banned. I understand that an Any% category should just be get to the end of the game as fast as possible by whatever means necessary, but restrictions can be enforced similar to the Super Meat Boy Any%.

Here's a thought for the Snubbyland version. Would you consider it legal if I were to bind my spacebar to left click (or use the Windows mousekeys) and leave the cursor on the bottom half of the game screen, effectively allowing me to pass through the tip screens with a single keyboard press?

hsbluehsblue likes this. 
  cros107cros107

You're an idiot. The entire point of the game is to complete it in one go through the "Play game" button. ILs are not the intended way to play the full game. Completely changing the rules to allow this is stupid, all for a potential 10 second timesave without adding any skill to the speedrun?

RioynerRioyner and hsbluehsblue like this. 
  hsbluehsblue

You called me ass hat 🙁

 
  PzulaPzula

Yes I do agree that the use of emulator settings or external software to influence the game's normal running state would clearly be deemed illegitimate, but where is this written rule? It comes down to a judgement call, much like how the use of the level select would also be judged and deemed illegitimate. Now, sure, there is a difference between these two examples: one modifies the conditions in which the game runs, and the other utilizes features in the game. The point I'm trying to make here is that neither scenario is covered under the current rules, so if you wanted to put these cases strictly against the written rules then I don't see why either of them should not be allowed. The use of macros/changing the default control scheme, something you feel should be banned, would also be permitted unless explicitly stated otherwise.

Is there anything wrong with simply banning the use of the level select? This would clearly eliminate all possible use of the level select and put Coolmathsgames on par with Snubbyland. I'm not sure if there's a governing body for speedrunning with a set of standardized categories and rules, but every game has their own variation and restrictions within categories. I don't see the harm in having a rule which is applicable to some versions of the game, and irrelevant to others.

Banning the level select leaves the only version difference being the tip screen. We're up against a spacebar press vs. a mouse click (or tab/space), and I don't think it's justified that such a minor difference would warrant the need to specify on which version the run was performed.

cros107cros107, RioynerRioyner and 2 others like this. 
  hsbluehsblue

Level select is not allowed ?

 
  PzulaPzula

Had runs been submitted in the past that made use of the level select, they would not have been accepted. I've now put it in the rules that level select is not permitted. This makes the difference between versions minimal, and bans a major feature that never existed in the original game. If folks wish to do All Level runs that use the level select to save time on level transitions, then I wouldn't have a problem creating some sort of niche category to accommodate this.

Also, congratulations on your recent run! That was some very impressive movement, frighteningly good actually. Looks like big things are ahead if you keep up that level of play ?

hsbluehsblue likes this. 
  RioynerRioyner

i believe that everything should stay the same still even with your reasoning's with the changes. im pretty sure i speak for the majority when i say this, but using a level select feature in a speedrun is stupid (also that shouldn't even be in the rules since its kinda self explanatory). the way i look at the level select feature is like loading a already existing save file before an OOT run begins. also menuing doesnt really work for this type of game, the run will probably seem more tedious than enjoyable. i also am pretty sure that hachimen is the only person who wants this change from the looks of it, so why bother changing something this small that one person wants to change in the community? another thing i want to bring up is the current situation in the 'super mario bros', those times are down to the milliseconds and theres nothing holding back whg from having the same optimizations with the current rule sets since there is no rng. im just thankful that in the past 3 months there has been more changes to the board than this board has had in the past 3 years (we now have ILs, No coin, and a updated version of WHG and we even have a whg discord now, all in the last 3 months).

anyway, everyone has said some valuable reasons why we shouldn't have the level select be brought into this game so hopefully we can drop this subject now.

hsbluehsblue likes this. 
  hsbluehsblue

everyone is welcome to the community with open arms \o/ ❤️

RioynerRioyner likes this. 
  JumpyluffJumpyluff

I turned off forum notifications for this game because of you. 🙂

cros107cros107, RioynerRioyner and hsbluehsblue like this. 
  hsbluehsblue

All notifications in all forums?
Or just this forum

 
  cros107cros107

"for this game"

RioynerRioyner likes this. 
  GameguySDGameguySD
(edited: )

Running any level via the menu select, regardless of whether or not it's the last level in a given route, doesn't count as anything more than an IL speedrun. Any% is defined as a "Full-Game Leaderboard" category for a reason; you actually play through the full game. Individual Level speedruns (see - Level Leaderboard) have no such restriction, and that is what you're suggesting be added as a fullgame category.

I could similarly suggest that any run be accepted as any%, regardless of what level is chosen as a starting point.

[edit] I should mention that I do agree with the category name "Any%" being overused. A category name should define the route, not anything that could be jumped on as reaching the agreed-upon any% ending. It's also possible to do the opposite and have any% exceptions with additional exploits or route changes allowed, but as an appendage to the category name. Super Meat Boy has a few examples of miscellaneous Any% categories.

RioynerRioyner, hsbluehsblue and youtubeman06youtubeman06 like this. 
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