Florida, USA[quote]I really surprised by your replies. I play the game often and I never use that bugs, and they almost never happen. You are trying to say that this bugs happens so often that are innevitable. I don't say that they can't appear accidentally, but if you don't go for do them, it's hard to see them. You can't say that stay behind Brad's body (or the shelving of the RPD Office, or dead bodies near the door of the gems puzzle, etc) shooting and menuing until Nemesis dies, is the same that dodge and shoot actively.[/quote]
First of all, as someone coming in who doesn't run the game at all (you don't have any runs submitted for any category), why are you bugged with what rules are here? You're free to run the game, dodging Nemesis as you wish, completing the steam room puzzle properly, or whatever rules you choose to do, post them on youtube or whatever forum you'd like and call them whatever you want. Nobody is forcing you to play the game that way. However, those are the rules of the forum.
But honestly, the purpose of your argument, even if you were an active runner, is defeated by your own words here.
[quote]Of course fight without use this bugs takes more time[/quote]
This is the point. This is a speed run, not a challenge run or a casual run. The fastest way to beat Nemesis is to use the corner bugs, and the fastest way to do the steam puzzle is to let the steam hit you while activating the panel. There are certain stipulations to each category, yes, but this is not a glitch. This is simply an exploit of the AI. There are countless games on speedrun.com that take advantage of exploits.
Learning how to do Nemesis without the corner bugs isn't really necessary for the run because it's definitely the fastest way. You might say that your run is "superior" to mine and other runners of the Nemesis% category, because you're beating Nemesis without using bugs, but it's not faster and that's the point.
[quote]RE1 examples are pause cancel (makes the Chris run almost a only knife); walk back and the zombies will turn, so they are easy to dodge (but with this method takes more time, so is rarely used); stuck the zombie in the statue with the blue gem (but only affect one zombie, is not really important). But this things are not banned in the glitchless rules of the RE1 leaderboard, and the pause cancel is really a game changing.[/quote]
Not sure why we're discussing RE1 here, but alright. You need to note the word "Major" in the Glitches category. The pause cancels are done because it's a minor glitch that pauses the IGT while opening the menu, saving frames. Old strategies for getting by these zombies were usually just tanking the bite, which costs an extra few seconds. And yes, you do have enough health to tank all the bites every time a pause cancel is used instead (since the knife runs have a heal after Plant 42). However, again, this is the fastest method and that's why this is used. If it was discovered later that tanking the bite or some other way of getting by these zombies without using the pause cancel was faster, that would be used instead.
In short, I normally wouldn't criticize someone for having no runs on the board, but the particular rules you're referencing deal with speed and have been set by the community. When you've contributed nothing besides a complaint and just are here to present a problem, and then show irritation when people are explaining why your suggestion isn't being considered for the main board, then why are you here? Again, you're free to post your challenge runs anywhere and call them whatever you want. But here, you'll have to follow the rules as set or accept a slower time and run it your way. There are no rules against running it the way you describe, so if you can get a competitive time, I'd encourage you to do so and submit. Any% runs use only the glitch in the steam room, and even if you were against using that glitch, you could still do the steam puzzle properly and get a very competitive time, so I'd at least suggest getting a time on that first so that way your opinion holds more weight.
I do think we should add a 100% to this. I'd define it as:
All unique items & weapons, and using all items (for example, STARS cards at computer, possibly looking at password in Pharmacy, etc) All unique enemy kills (including Worm 1) All files (including Jill's diary, so must be collected in order) All Nemesis encounter kills (including Carlos and on train) All doors unlocked/all keys used Canon ending
Couple questions: If all weapons collected, which scenario would one scenario technically not have to pick up sub-machine gun/side pack since this would be left for the other character? Or would they all be treated individually?
Although all rooms wouldn't have to be visited, would the keys have to be discarded/unlock all doors? (Specifically for Claire A and the B scenarios where the club key does not have to be used on one door.) (Same could be asked of Old Keys collected to unlock doors and desks and with Claire where the underground storage areas would have to be inspected. Although no unique items in there, these doors are still locked.)
Would Mr. X count as a unique enemy each time you see him? Or would killing him once in each form suffice?
Would grabbing the extra ammo with Sherry and Ada count, since this adds a line of dialogue to the cutscene?
I might have more, but these are a good base.
To give you a quick suggestion so you can try:
Pick up Shotgun
Nemmy 1: Same as normal (May need to pick up handgun bullets in warehouse and at restaurant for a later Nemmy) Nemmy 2: Pick up Handgun bullets in STARS office on Barry's desk, then get Nemmy stuck in evidence room or Marvin's office (Alternatively, could pick up Shotgun shells in Marvin's office or on fireplace in conference room to use for Nemmy fight, but probably slower) Nemmy 3: Eagle (Handgun bullets outside Newspaper building pickup) Nemmy 4: Eagle (Handgun bullets on corpse outside power station) Nemmy 5: Shotgun/Eagle (Shotgun shells on corpse outside the train) Nemmy 6: Custom Shotgun/Eagle (When you went into chapel, pick up handgun bullets you banked from warehouse) Nemmy 7: Magnum/Eagle Nemmy 8: Fight Nemesis with Carlos, then use Eagle/Shotgun with Jill Pick up extra minethrower rounds either in save room or on table before leaving clocktower Worm: Magnum Nemmy 9: Normal Nemmy 10: Minethrower
This is just how I would do it...might be able to be more optimized, though.
Getting back to the original question...
No, I don't think there should be another category. Not because I'm "against fun" or anything like that, but because oversaturation can cause a game to be taken less seriously, which in turn, could cause less runners to play.
There are already six categories and two PC categories. Yet, by far, the most run category is Any %. Magnum % is somewhat popular, but this is more likely due to the mechanics of the game, since for most players to obtain a time to beat their current PB, they need a GL, but still, they'd rather not sacrifice a good start or they're tired of resetting at RPD and basement. (Technically, this is really just "no grenade launcher %" because literally everything else besides the GL can be used.)
Beyond that, the other categories have less than 25% of the runners for any%, and to me, this category doesn't add anything meaningful, since it's just any% plus. While Dara was most likely being somewhat sarcastic, I'd actually go for that category first, since it actually requires 100% of unique items being picked up, which would be painful since it would require a lot of inventory management, but at the same time, would require all boss fights, a lot of different routing, such as using the shotgun/magnum/minethrower in places you wouldn't normally, save room/chest routing, etc.
But I think that this category doesn't offer enough variance to be called a category, and would contribute to oversaturation of the board.
The active runners argument is mainly silly because it's based on the idea that whoever is running the game at the time, no matter who they are or how long they've been running, has more validity than those who have ran in the past for a l or will come back to it at some point in the future.
It does. It absolutely does.
Think about it. How did this board start? By people who ran the game and were interested in actively speed running RE3. Those people move on and are replaced with others who might hold different opinions. Because of these different opinions, things change. The person who may have started and left the game has a lot less validity to say, "It should return to the way things were two years ago because reasons," and that person also has less validity to say, "I want to return to the game, and here are some things I disagree with because..."
This is how life works everywhere. Again, I don't get to vote in Texas elections because I used to live there and I have some interest in returning. Instead, I look at how things are now and say, "Should I return there still? Have things changed too much where it will be undesirable, or am I fine with how things are? Are things better than when I left and more attractive now?"
Just like if a new runner came to the board and said, "I think NG+ should be merged into Any % because technically, that is any % of beating RE3" doesn't mean that RE3 should change and do that. It doesn't mean that person can't have a voice and be listened to, but ultimately, they are going to be weighted less because they don't run the game.
Also, weight can be placed on many variables. For instance, you might weight someone who has run the game for two years and then took a year off and is interested in returning over someone who has been active for a week. You might weight someone who runs 30 games actively differently than someone who runs RE3 exclusively. They all bring a unique perspective with them. However, I think activity on the board should primarily set the precedent for the weight of the opinion.
The thing is, you guys lean on this argument now because you are the currently active runners. How would you like your opinion completely dismantled and ignored as invalid because you hadn't placed a PB on these boards in over 6 months?
I'd understand completely.
I didn't get to vote in Brexit, although I have an opinion on that. You didn't get to vote in the 2016 US elections (unless you were an American citizen in 2016 and I'm unaware), though I'm sure you have an opinion on that. Even if one of us showed interest in moving to the other country, we still don't get to vote in elections that are happening now.
Doesn't mean that if we shared opinions we'd be ignored. Maybe we'd agree, even. But what it does mean is that our opinion is weighted less because we're not there. And similarly, if we move on and branch out to other games and take a rest or stop playing RE3, or any game, then yes, the opinion has a lesser degree of validity.
Also, I believe it's a bit of an extreme and an inaccuracy to say, "ignored and dismantled completely." Have the mods "ignored" anyone with dissenting opinions? No, they've responded. They've taken it into account. But ultimately, they made a decision, explained their rationale (which I don't think is "dismantled completely") and even to this day, are open to the change. That's not happening, here.
Edit: "That's not happening, here" refers to the mods ignoring anyone. The mods aren't ignoring. They've responded and others have as well.
I said this before, but I'll say it again, not placing a PB on these boards in an extended period of time does not mean that you do not run.
It doesn't mean that you don't run, but this is a non-point. Since we're talking about the board, this means that by not placing something on the board, you're not participating in the board, which is where the rules of this board and the runners who submit runs to it are decided. Just because you never (or don't actively) submit a run to the board or don't want to follow certain rules of the board doesn't mean that you're not a runner. That's irrelevant, though. Again, that's like me saying, "I'm concerned about how schools are run in the UK. I think X should happen." Yes, I can have that opinion, and I can speak about it, but my opinion matters way less than someone with kids in schools in the UK. Even if I want to move to the UK, I have to accept how it is now and become a part of it before I can have weight to change it. Yes, similarly, I want people participating on the board to set the rules of the board.
Also, that doesn't mean someone with a contradictory opinion shouldn't speak, and yes, I think it's a responsibility of the mods to respond to them and not ignore them. If a former runner feels that rules should be changed, then they should absolutely be heard. However, it means that their opinion will be weighted differently (less) than someone running the game actively. And if the crowd who does this is a constantly molding crowd, then so be it.
Hold it right there, this argument is totally invalid and just outright stupid because whos to say the current inactive people won't return to the game in the future and still actually give a shit about the game and the leaderboard decisions?
Wait, as someone who wants to play this game, I need to respond to this. I've actually been running practice runs on stream, I have splits, and plan to submit a run when I'm no longer last place.
Actually, this is incorrect, Steven. If I want to move to the UK someday, does that mean I get a say (and have my opinion be as equally valid as someone who lives in the UK) on what happens today in the UK? I used to live in Texas, here in the US, for example, but I don't now. I don't get to vote on Texas elections today because I "might move back there some day." If I want to run Streets of Rage 2 some day, or I'm thinking about it, does that mean my opinion should be weighted the same as someone who actively runs the game? I don't see the equivalency. It doesn't work like this on almost anything, and I think this is an argument that your intellect is far above.
It was never discussed before TWN was added to the boards in the first place, it was silently added in the hopes it would just be accepted without any form of backlash, spoiler alert, it wasn't. TWN AND JPN were split the same way TWN was originally added but with the addition of a forum post explaining why it was split.
I understand that this was separated for Japanese runners and my opinion on it is fairly neutral. I see the point in both arguments. However, I would lean more towards Orchy's side for logistical purposes. For example, in the UAE or Cuba, either of these versions would be very difficult or impossible to obtain. So they may be stuck playing English, Spanish or some other version. When Dara talked about excluding these versions, I find this to be awful. But if we don't have separate categories for every version, then aren't we excluding people who don't have access to either of these versions, but may have access to a different version? There are many countries with strict piracy laws, even stricter than those in Japan. They may only have native versions of the game available to their countries. This is the argument that I feel is most important in considering this decision.
As an example, I would LOVE a US version category because I know the text better and when I run console, I really don't want to mod my PS2 to play an international copy. But then this makes the needs for Russian, European, etc. categories.
That's your opinion, and a very narrow minded one at that. Believe it or not though people also share that same opinion about TWN and see it as a category that doesn't mean anything. The Split of the 2 regions was also in part to people not wanting to "compete" with TWN since it already has an unfair advantage to JPN runners.
Again, I don't think competition level should be a factor as much as logistics should be, and this is something I feel everyone involved is going on in a tangent. I want a 100% category where all enemies must be killed and all unique items and weapons collected. It almost certainly wouldn't be competitive, but then again, there are categories that exist on RE3 that have zero runners or only one or two, yet they exist. So this isn't really an argument unless these categories are also eliminated or merged into others based on competition level. There are still several categories with no runners at all. However, competition level isn't really an argument either way, and whether I'd be granted that category would be based on other factors, most likely, so I think this should be discarded when considering what direction to move in.
Seeing this response, I'd like to chime in a bit.
- Japanese is the most competitive, as well as the fastest version. So, it takes precedence by default.
It's the most competitive, most likely, because it is the fastest. However, specifically with console and EMU runs, it is often not the most readily available or easiest to find.
Anyone who streams knows that there are often people that come in asking why the game is in Japanese. It's possible that some of these people would be more interested in running if their English versions worked or they could use the English version. (When I say worked and use, I mean to obtain competitive times. Obviously, we know that as long as they followed whatever rules were in place, their runs would not be rejected, but they have an infinitely harder time in getting a competitive time.)
Also, I'd like to respectfully point out that saying something is popular or competitive is not really an answer. If that were the case, then Leon A PC version would be the only category. Categories like Claire B low % on Dreamcast have no submissions. Should we remove it because it isn't popular? You'd probably say no, that just because someone hasn't run it yet, doesn't mean it should be removed as that version of the game do have people that submit.
However, I see far more interest in players running English versions of the game (which does differ from "hard mode" on the other versions) than someone running Claire B low % Dreamcast, yet one of those categories exists, and one doesn't. Is this an argument for English version category? No, but neither is the reverse true.
Resident Evil 3 recently separated out Japanese and Taiwanese, and I'd make the same argument there (that they should also have English version category.) However, RE2 doesn't do that, so I can understand that it's simply "fastest version." Someone could take Claire B low % DC WR with English version, in theory, and it hold up as WR, so I understand not separating it. But if there was a separation of versions, it should apply to all versions.
Also, I'd like to point out, and this is a minor point, that when looking for the game on speedrun.com, you cannot find the game under "Biohazard 2." You must search for "Resident Evil 2" which says that most players are likely more recognizing of the English version of the game, yet almost nobody runs "Resident Evil 2," they run "Biohazard 2." In so doing, they went and obtained the Japanese version somehow. This tells me that even the creators of this forum knew that the English version was more popular, which means that it's likely you'd already have some runners if an English version were created. Again, not advocating for that, but just a thought.
