I created a patch for the J version as well, because it is likely the faster overall version and/or maybe we can find a different Technodrome manipulation for it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6b1h8uucb3pe3mc/Gekikame%20Ninja%20Den%20TT.ips?dl=1

I have wanted to make this game race viable for a long time now because, aside from Technodrome manipulation, I feel like this would be a fantastic race game. Therefore, I have created a rom hack that guarantees Technodrome spawn in the best location, and still moves it to bottom left if you game over.

I plan to add cutscene skips in order to make tournaments a bit more viable as well, but this first version only forces Technodrome spawn to the top position. I don't think I introduced any bugs, but if people would give it a test, I would appreciate it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qtpas2bwdrc1peg/TMNT%20Race%20Edition.nes?dl=1

Based on feedback, metronomes are allowed. I don't have any more say than anyone else, but I feel like people are waiting on me to "decide" and I don't want to hold back runs from anyone. If there is a large movement against it in the future (I doubt there will be) we can consider moving those runs to another category or whatever. Thank you to everyone that did voice their opinion.

You can definitely read the memory of a real console. You can definitely read inputs of a real controller while counting how long the controller has had power. You can definitely read on what frame since power on the console displayed the first level. The first is guaranteed to work and the other 2 are quick ideas that I think would also achieve the same info.

Anyhow thinking about it more, I think the line for me is that if you can't preform a trick consistently without a tool, then it is tool assisted. Things such as notes can/will be memorized and really only serve as a reminder of what trick to do, they don't aid in performing the actual trick. If I get a chance in the next couple days, I will look into what timing Skunky is even targeting and see if it could be targeted without a metronome. That is really just for my self though, as maybe it will make me feel better about it.

I suppose if controlling our own inputs is the only issue, then a metronome was never necessary. Just read the memory address and reset until you get a 2.

I'm not suggesting that reading memory is on the same level as a metronome, but I do believe that tool assisted goes beyond inputs and that you shouldn't be allowed "any means to feed yourself with information during a run."

There are even multiple programs I could come up with that I believe would be as accurate of a check as a direct memory read, but would not actually read the memory. It is hard for me to separate a program that tells me when to push a button from a program that tells me if I pushed a button correctly. Perhaps people feel both should be allowed anyhow.

I do seem to be in the strong minority here, though and I certainly won't kick and scream against what the community wants. I just wanted to clarify a bit more.

I would, yes, which is why I have never done that. There are definitely other games that use timers for making decisions in game though. In SMB you are able to determine what the hammer bros patterns will be based on frame rule, and while I think that also qualifies as tool assisted, they seem to be okay with it.

Part of me wants to just allow it so that more people might actually run this game, but I keep hoping we will find a methodology that is more "legitimate" for lack of a better word.

Either way, before people jump on this and run with it, I think we need to have a discussion about whether it is or is not tool assisted.

As much as I would love consistent technodrome, I feel like this qualifies as tool assisted.

Damage boost to avoid the third jetpack guy duck. Even if you have 3 health before, it should leave you with enough to survive an accidental laser or jetpack collision in the next narrow section.

I've clipped there before and then edited the game's memory to get outside of the box. Redheaded is correct that you cannot scroll to the right.

I think we all knew this was possible, but I thought I'd play around with it a bit. Wouldn't surprise me if timing varied from RNG, but I think since you wait for him to spit fire, it might be possible to be consistent.

For the second pit I used the head again and I think it takes a similar amount of time to set up as the beetle. Killing the head to get back to the beetle set is pretty easy, but either I had bad RNG or this setup ruins the forward moving beetle spawn, as I just can't get it to appear in this save state.

edit: Confirmed it was bad RNG. You can get a forward moving beetle for the second pit.

Nobody directly said Skunky's list was wrong, but there are posts in that thread that have conflicting opinions versus his. thenesmaster says right before Skunky that he thinks Technodrome spawn manipulation is a glitch and Skunky says it isn't. They also conflict on the Shredder fight and weapon swap trick. spicybackpain is against "hiding on the ledge during the city boss fight" which seems to refer to the Mechaturtle fight. Skunky disagrees about it being a glitch in another post.

Beyond that, things missing/unclear from Skunky's list:

1. Damage boosting for the sake of enemy set manipulation and/or to get past enemies. While I don't think any sort of damage boost would be a glitch, "Rope-skip and other similar damage boosting" are specifically referred to, so I would think you also consider other types, especially when manipulation of other game variables were discussed as well.

2. Enemy vehicle despawning by getting out of the Party Wagon. Addressed by others in the thread, but not in his list.

3. Post Technodrome fight death. Making the Technodrome fight longer creates a real possibility of dying during the post fight forced movement. This shortens/alters the post fight transition.

4. Weapon damage swap trick (Scroll damage trick). This is my biggest concern here, and people don't seem to fully understand the mechanics. All player attacks do the damage of the currently active weapon. This is not limited to scrolls and it certainly isn't limited to Donatello. If you throw a shuriken and switch back to your normal weapon before it hits, that shuriken does the damage of the normal weapon. Furthermore, if you throw your last scroll and the game sets you back to normal weapon automatically (as it always does) your scroll will do the damage of your normal weapon.

The "glitchless" run that spicybackpain posted in that thread literally has this trick/glitch/whatever in it. He turns off his scrolls before the scroll connects with a Technodrome turret, causing it to do Mike's nunchuck damage of 7.

Ideally, a list of rules would just be a list of "don'ts," where the assumption is that everything else is allowed. I don't expect anyone to address every single possible thing in the game, so if you just flat out ignore some of these, I am fine with that and will assume they are allowed.

What I do want, is someone to post an actual ruleset that can be copy pasted onto that board, and then we can give people a short amount of time to post disagreements, or if it simply gets enough likes that I can tell it has majority vote.

Nobody even came to a consensus on a set of rules. Maybe do that before demanding a board. Skunky's list made the most sense to me, but still didn't cover everything. However, other people clearly disagreed with him. I have zero desire to run the category, so I am certainly not going to force my opinion on others about it.

You will need an ips patching program like Lunar IPS ( https://www.romhacking.net/utilities/240/ ). It will apply the patch to a rom file that you then transfer to the everdrive and run as you would any rom file.

Tested Everdrive today with slightly delayed audio to make the cue easier and it actually seems fine. So my previous issues were likely due purely to my timing, not the Everdrive. I'm deleting my post above to avoid confusion, and I apologize to anyone I may have misled before. This cue is just frustrating as hell for me.

Rope skips with the beetle enemy set are actually pretty easy and forgiving. I think only the first 2 are possible. The second beetle spawn needed for the second gap seems to be RNG if it will spawn or not.

The "trick" is to jump very late in terms of the ground. You want to do a jump that is technically off of the platform (similar to the jump used when grabbing the scrolls, but attacking is unnecessary).

If you jump late enough, the beetle damage boost is actually very forgiving and you can even press back a bit if you think you aren't going to be hit by the beetle.

After you make the skip, avoid the white pillar, as touching it will activate the rope throw back to where you came from. Just jump over it.

First skip seems to save about 1 second, the second skip saves about 2 seconds.

Edited original post to point to improved version.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hfa1um2fgjp7lql/TMNT%20best%20TT.ips?dl=0

Quick and dirty hack to practice Technodrome spawns on flash carts. The location gets put into your high score as the tenths column, after you kill one enemy. 2 is the best spawn.

New improved version. Puts the value into high score instead of score. This also doesn't seem to have the overflow issues from before, so enemy spawns are normal (as far as I can tell).