If you'd like, join the Discord if you have any further questions : https://discord.gg/ySjfXpS

This is the most recent/current route available : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10WVaavGwq_8k6neMKhyR7SJtYMt98xYu9Wsj2ZkIFZo/edit?usp=sharing

There currently isn't a video "tutorial" explaining necessarily every trick, but there are a few resources you could scan through to help you learn tricks. You could look up individual videos on YT if you need, ask in Discord, or go to the past broadcasts / runs of some hundo runners on Twitch/src leaderboards and watch their route personal bests with the current route. Doing all of that should at least be good stepping stones.

There also used to be mount-clipping, in many areas, along with what Tamlordli mentioned. It was once possible to mount onto a Mammoth mount in the Dalaran Sewers, and one could clip behind the bank, get below the sewers into the "fake arena" under the sewer grates, and a ton more areas used mount clipping too.

I'm unsure of why it's required now to force the client to crash, but I can assume it's something to do with the model extending beyond the collision detection for certain textures, which wasn't "patched" pre-Cata.

If I remember correctly, what we planned to do with LFR was allow the LFR que so that individuals who were doing "All Raids" and the various "All Dungeons" categories to teleport/hop from instance to instance / dungeon to dungeon.

There was some discussion I think between myself, Sadruns, and maybe a few others on the forum/discord about a run that was using LFR to merely travel, nothing more. When we saw the potential to use it for travelling, we only allowed it to be used in that case, likewise, the Training Grounds glitch still hasn't been fixed (where players can glitch through Training Grounds to explicitly get to the end of raids), but we banned this glitch in this case to prevent from what you're mentioning, Venty.

Under what we assume is the current ruleset; LFR/Dungeon Finder Ques were only for travelling purposes only. I don't think we've verified a single run that used LFR / Dungeon Finder in Any%/All Bosses, or even a All Dungeons/All Raids run that went against using LFR/Dungeon Finder for it's "intended purpose".

We do have a few members in the community still looking for more skips, Shiekrunner has made a huge contribution, and also holds the records for most of the older/patched routes that no longer work. Wrong Warping is actually possible in the game, and we are looking for more applications of this : : if we can learn how to clip out in a majority of raids that have teleporters, we can mostly skip most raids anyways. It's only a matter of time until we learn a consistent way to do it, lol. (which, we do know how to do, it's just more about finding how to abuse the teleport system). check out : the first 30 seconds to see what we call the "Get Big" glitch. Pretty much, use any item that makes your character model grow in size, and force a client crash, upon reload your model clips out of bounds.

^ only for-mentioned because warping could skip a lot of raids anyways.

TL:DR, LFR/Dungeon Finder was meant as a travel means only, and I don't think we've verified a single run that used them out of this manner/respect. Wrong Warping is possible, among "Get Big" glitch (GBG), and really can destroy most of the raids/dungeons anyways, just a means of exploring possibilities at this point.

Also, if need be, the "Potion" and "No Potion" modifiers can also be carried over, so that someone who chooses to just splurge-level their character with potions (who may have farmed, or has quite a bit of gold) can't just trample over someone's time who chose not to use potions, also shows the differential amount of time one saves/loses over the other.

As far as I'm concerned, the addition of the category (and even others similar to it, ie 1-70/1-80/1-90) all sound like decent categories to add to the board, if someone wanted to do a 1-90 heirlooms run, they could technically checkpoint their run at each respective point prior (ie 60/70) and have multiple runs just from 1, 1-90 completion.

Level 1 to 60 (Heirlooms) Level 1 to 70 (Heirlooms) Level 1 to 80 (Heirlooms) and Level 1 to 90 (Heirlooms)

Could be added to the board, as main categories under the all dungeons categories. Adding the rest of these categories allows (someone, potentially insane) to go ahead and also bottleneck an entire run, 1-110, into a complete submission for all leveling categories (given, they follow the rules, ofc.)

Lmk if this sounds like a reasonable option. =)

Running with a twink is actually encouraged! The only runs that actually "require" you to use/get a character to max are those that require getting to 110 / require unlocking content at level 110. Otherwise, feel free to use a twinked character (there are a few of us who are actually using 101 Demon Hunters for this purpose).

Ripto's expressions also change when he receives a hit, you could simply take the first frame that his facial expression changes as the fame of last input, since that's technically when the last hit is being registered.

I was about to say, just to chime in, there is official loss of control over Spyro once you deal the last hit to Ripto. The only thing that you need to know to confirm it was a final hit was if you hear the audio cue.

Since the end of the run is there to at least confirm Ripto died, I don't see why it shouldn't be verified, or ruleset needs to be clarified to cinema transition, or loss control / last hit.

I would like mention that as long as you never group with anyone, any means of travel is fine. Warlock summoning, summoning stones, and Recruit-A-Friend summoning is banned. If you are running as a mage, the mage spell and ability "Portals" and "Teleport" are allowed; city-portals are allowed for all classes, of course!

I would like to mention that using your Hearthstone, Dalaran Hearthstone, and Garrison Hearthstone to travel are nice ways to travel as well, alongside Deepholm potions to get to your factions main-city portal. Just some tips, enjoying the runs. You'll have some competition soon!

Interesting. I take it that this information is with heirlooms that were generated directly from the heirlooms page, meaning no heirlooms that have any enchants that could have been sent over from another character?

It would be interesting to see these results in an Excel/Spreadsheet comparing with added enchants, such as +SP to Staff results, +(4)? Chest Stats. etc., and seeing also cumulative results. Primarily interested in this because some of the leveling categories use a skip at the beginning + involves mailing items, so those runs would be influenced by enchants + this data/information.

Also, tendrils are great for the murloc sections in Northern-Elwynn, but has this "setup" been tested to show the best starter damage/stats? Once again, just interested in wondering because of how diffferent the heirloom trinket setups could be (varying from intel+intel, haste+haste, intel+haste, haste+tendril crit, intel+tendril crit).

@sadrunslive : Don't worry about it. I've got it taken care of. I'm working on setting up the boards right now, and am taking the day when I get home this afternoon to clean up and sift through the submissions and plce them where they should be according to the new IL layout. I've been also archiving old Draenor runs that were using more exploits and glitches that are currently patched, but I'm working on routing some of the out of bounds for certain raids.

@Geri0n : You should be able to set up your Draenor raid submissions in just a moment.

As an additional post, I'm working on the leaderboards right now. Currently, I think the best naming and classification for categories are going to be the names: Any%, 100%, All Bosses. Technically, All Bosses means that you defeat all the bosses in the dungeon. Any% is going to mean you only have to complete, or kill the boss, that fulfills the basic achievement requirement for completing the raid. You can use exploits and out of bounds in all categories.

Any%: Defeat the final boss that fulfills the raid achievement. 100%: Defeat all the bosses within the raid journal, and all mobs that are not recurring. All structures must also be destroyed. (Ulduar exclusive). All Bosses: Defeat all the bosses within the raid journal.

I think this clears up a lot of confusion that would have been conceived in Max% (the all mobs definition). It didn't make much sense, and All Bosses versus 100% makes much more sense.

Obsidium Sanctum is going to be one of those raids where Any% is just run in and kill Sartharion, All Bosses is going to be moved to a definition where you kill each of the three smaller dragon bosses individually, and then kill Sartharion, and then a final 100% definition where you actually kill all of the mobs, (like oldschool days), and then kill each dragon individually, and then Sartharion. If we apply this kind of logic and definition to the rest of the raids, I think it will be really easy for us to start sifting through the board, and pumping runs out. Some raids fulfill multiple definitions within the same run, such as Eye, so that's nice as well.

--- Feedback on the previous post, and this post, are greatly appreciated. If you would like, see about exporting and redefining your runs whenever possible. I've been doing a lot of sifting, but I'm also working on the out of bounds guide, as well as the items guide. So, I'm just really busy with resources atm. ---

Thought I'd bring a closing to the conversation here on this thread.

Out of Bounds and Exploits, usually, aren't really bannable offenses that Blizzard hunts for. There is actually an old memorial in Orgrimmar that was put there for a 19 year old Blizzard employee who passed from unexpected heart failure. It's a stone slab in a room on a wall that says WKM. Michel Koiter, a Blizzard artist, and also exploit and glitch hunter, was given this memorial in the older expansions of the game, you couldn't fly here normally, so you had to use glitches/exploits (or luckily rotate your camera to see the room) to even reach or see it.

As for that, I don't think there are any offenses that are ban-worthy enough (other than if you are really bad, and you keep logging in and out of your account, and that somehow throttles their servers). The out of bounds exploitation is minimal, as Blizzard has added a sort of "death barrier" in the out of bounds zoning, and I'm working on a video guide as for how anyone can get out of bounds. Some of the older methods don't work anymore, and some items were actually patched to not have the same growth effects. So, I''ll be working on that soon. It's actually quite hard, and I've used over 200 Giant Growths, so far, just trying to get new out of bounds documentation on Karazhan. I can see the final boss out of bounds, but just hit death barriers, so working on that or somehow slowfalling back in bounds to skip a portion of the raid.

As Gerion said, it doesn't really interfere with current content; HOWEVER, there is already a group of Demon Hunters who have figured out how to get out of bounds in Nighthold and were able to get to bosses further in the raid. Doesn't really help though (unless they could RaF a Warlock in, lol).

So, in closing: TLDR;

1. I don't think there is much to worry about. Blizzard has placed memorials in the game for exploit hunters.
2. It's not a forseeable edge over any current content, and also, most of our bosses don't have mount drops. It's not like we are skipping to just get to the last boss faster for mounts or something, ie, getting an edge over time>drops.
3. It's old content, and exploit hunting in these older areas is a lesser of two evils, in terms of bannable offenses.

For raids that only have a standard any% and 100%, I guess we can do dual submission. I'm not sure what else to do. The only thing I could think of is doing a similar board style to Doom that does Max% (where we kill all mobs, bosses, etc) and then we can have any%, 100%, max%, which is just the extension of killing all mobs.

Otherwise simply having the 100% runs transfer over is the only way to fill up those boards with current submissions.

• some raids just don't have anything past any%, such as eye, which is technically all three. -

@Geri0n : I believe I've made the changes! I was able to set up the board simply by changing the name of the categories, rotating them in the edit section and simply moving Sheikrunner's run over to the Any% category. I'm still going to be working on the ruleset definitions, as those need to be worked on. :)

@ConjuredBiscuit : I've made the change! Let me know if you all can see it or if there is anything to edit. I hope I can figure out good rulesets / adjustments to any% and 100%, certain raids just have only standard completion, lol.

1. Of course, back in the day when VoA was initially released, stone was the only warden that was in the vault. It was over the course of future patches that others came out during Wrath. If you kill them and check their loot, it gradually increase ilvl based on the patch that they were released. I believe the order was stone, wind, and fire. If we wanted any% to just be a "rush to the final boss as fast as possible, no restrictions, do anything" type deal, the way it is supposed to be, then that's completely fine. I've already started to review the board and have the categories separated. Luckily, it's not going to be hard for us to export and move videos around since a lot of us have the links to our own videos still, or have archived their upload somewhere.

2. If we want to have a timer in the final video, I might see what I could do about downloading the video submissions for short categories under like 2-3min, and I'll add a timer in myself and then modify their video link to the correct run, or I'll just decline submissions on long runs without a timer if that seems fit.

2a) I don't see how any of us couldn't or wouldn't have noticed this after playing for years. Thought I'd still mention it 9.9

3. Yeah, Goblin Warrior = double jump, charge, consumables, engineering, it's kind of nice. Goblin mage is much faster than human mage, I just don't want to switch at the moment, lol.

Sheik has done some ingenious work in various communities.

1. Any% | 100% I think are both fine additions to accept. The only thing to keep in mind here is with certain raids, the any% definition is it going to be defined by achievement, legacy, etc. Vault of Archavon was originally with stone-bearer. We could say that any% is the legacy definition of this raid. It would mean that under the rule sets I would make sure to include the exact rules for each. Any% for example would be Archavon, 100% would be all of them. This then could be a "formula" used for all raids.

¤¤¤ I think it's safe to say the lower and leveling categories are locked and set at the moment, other than possibly dividing it among 0%, 300% and 600% still ¤¤¤

2. Timer is okay to not have on screen, personally. Even though I have a timer on screen, sometimes I don't split accurately, and I take my footage into Vegas and time it frame by frame to get the most accurate timing down to ms. It's why I've started having ms in my timings (short categories, also easy to frame count). I wouldn't constitute really any splicing here, it's more than likely having two battlenet applications open and simply hardlocking yourself. I've done it on my lower leveling runs to exit after the game faster rather than sitting and logging out.

2a) As mentioned above, I do after run timing mostly anyways, and use my timer as a reference while I'm playing. If it's a short run and I mess up the opening, or get a slow loading, then I just restart. I've actually got to mention something about "priming" loading zones. If you load into a zone, then out of it, it's exponentially faster to go back in a second time with a much faster load.

3. Of course, as I figured mostly the board was going to be saturated with Goblin Warriors, Druids, DHs, and Mages. These classes right now have the most movement utility with low cooldown times that work well with consumables. I've gone back and picked up engineering, have started and realized that the tinker belt and wearable boots don't share cooldowns, consumables obviously don't share this cooldown either, and I'm able to keep up in most on my mage. Do I think it constitutes me leveling my DH more to keep up? I might, but I more so enjoy pushing a single character to it's limit, especially when I know mage is going to be one of the fastest for the "all dungeons" categories o.o b

4. I've done thought into this. I've thought about the old-school days when people used to play on private servers, and some still do. I don't think I'm ever going to be open to the idea of being able to use private servers; however, the PTR is different. It's actually being hosted on live blizzard servers. Ultimately, I'd have to come up with a community desicion on this. I don't really know the difference between JP and ENG SM64, but I do know that the only difference between it and most games, usually, is text speed.

I don't think WoW Speedrunning actually has a discord at the moment. I'll look into setting up the discord soon with Sadruns.

There's actually been just general complaint about Karazhan being too long of an instance, and the chess counter just being monotonous to sit through and complete. The chess encounter is actually mostly RNG, from what I've been able to test, and it's simply not fun to try and get the best "cheating" rng. I mentioned to Gerion that I was going to have to go back and change some rulesets, and that's just one of them I've been able to get around to changing.

The fishing boss in Serpentshrine adds a little more competitiveness to that run. It's a generally short raid, and with a high enough fishing skill that greatly improves the chances of fishing up Lurker. The amount of RNG is minimal, there is actually hardcode that improves the chances of fishing Lurker up if you have a higher skill. Simply increase, or max, fishing for the best odds. Semi-rng.

As far as skipping any bosses, there are certain raids I've looked back at and realized they were either:

1. Impossible to complete solo.
2. Incredibly difficult to complete solo.
3. Took to long to complete solo, reducing the amount of times that category, or raid, would be ran.
4. Some classes are just unfairly advantaged. The goal has never been to discourage from running on your main, just so you can achieve a faster time on a class that has better movement utility or access to certain glitches.

As far as what I've been able to recreate with Kara, this appears to be possible due to Demon Hunters double-jump. I thought it was rather ingenious, and also thought it would help us into breaking some other raids. I remember doing a glitch similar to this in Dalaran Sewers and could actually get to the Arena section below the grate. It used to require having a large mount, like a mammoth, but Sheik here did it with just a Dark Phoenix.

I'm working on a comprehensive thread for this at the moment, so that it's going to be user-friendly. It's taking me some time, and I thought it would have been ready yesterday evening or today, but I'll see what I can do about getting it out soon. It will be another thread with everything you'll need to know. :)

Coming back to update on this post...

I'm glad to see that there has been an increasing amount of submissions for the Individual Raids. I've noticed that there are a surge of notifications concerning "World Records", etc., and still wanted to let everyone know that you can turn off those notifications, if you'd like.

There's probably going to be a post later today also with general introduction information, item links, etc., so that will be something to be on the look-out for.

Enjoying the competition! -cdgexe- B)