IrelandI've now made that post, since you did you request before that post and i did say one run in chat. I will allow you to continue your request with the submitted run https://www.speedrun.com/gtao/thread/iyfoe
Hi Everyone,
After a recent discussion regarding adding a category. It is become clear that there exists no clear standard for people to submit a new category to this game.
Currently, when you want to request a category, you just submit a forum post and I or Ben will look at it and give our thoughts along with others and weight if it’s a category that should be added. If people respond favourably to it and we think its valid. We will add it. Otherwise, the request may (if not enough interest is gauged or the category has massive issues or is not needed/wanted) be rejected or shelved.
Following with the existing standard, to submit a valid request, you must have 2 clear things to start with. A forum post and 2 runs of the category that are independent of other possible runs. The runs can be created after the forum post is submitted, but if 2 runs are not posted in the forum post. The category will not be considered.
In the interest of not cluttering the leader boards with categories that no one runs your requested category must have two submitted runs from two different people that do not overlap with an existing run. For example, requesting heist ILs. The runs must be submitted independent of a full run to count.
This is to see if at least two people have an interest in kickstarting a category. After that you may submit your runs as part of a series of runs like normal. (If the category gets added. This rule will be lifted.)
Regarding the forum post while not completely required (It will help the discussion if done) Please list the pros and cons to the category and any issues it may have in the present or future. If you do not do it, someone eventually will. Below are some rules regarding submitting a category.
The category must not be too specific. Heist ILs are boarding on that specific part, but to give an example. Heist Preps for Doomsday would be too specific to request. Its ok to debate if a category is or is not too specific and since it can be a grey area. It is important to make your case clear.
No minigames, free mode missions or arbitrary categories. Arbitrary categories include examples like "Driving around SA motorway in the fastest time" or "Drive up Mt Chiliad" Minigames include things like golf, tennis, arm wrestling or arcade games. Free mode missions include free mode events, business restock/selling or other free mode related stuff. If the free mode event is part of a bigger run, it is allowed. I.E doomsday prep stuff
The category must have a distinct start and end point. A distinct start can either be a lobby a notification or popup appears on screen. A distinct end, this can be "Mission passed", "Finished" or something along the lines.
I should point out that there are going to be special cases. But these rules will exist to make you think about the category before submitting it. Please do submit it as a forum post and a discussion can be had. The only hard rule is that 2 runs rule. If your post does not contain that, the category will not be added.
Thank you for your time, and if you have any questions about this. Please feel free to post them here.
Ok let me clarify some things, i will concede and did say in chat that if you create a video of the run, i would add the catagory. I should state that was wrong of me and i apologies for that. I should have clarified and re-stated the argument i made for adding ils that applies to catagories 4 months ago here "If you guys want it. Then produce two seperate runs from two different people then i'll consider adding it as an IL"
https://www.speedrun.com/gtao/thread/il03y/2. <- See my post that is 4 months old
As for the fourm post requirment, i should have lumped that in with my original message, but that was always a requirment from the begining considering the existing mission request thread and subseqient standard of existing forums posts for other catagory suggestions. I'll admit, the name should be mission/catagory request thread, but blame joshimuz for naming that. After this post, i will make a forum post clarifying the requirments to requesting a catagory or run to be added. Hopefully that solidifies the requirments.
I wanted you to create a forum post, as my chat message suggests, to gage interest around the catagory request. Considering a user above expressed a 'why' to why you want the catagory. That alone is a pretty good indication that ther would be some questions surrounding the catagory itself. Hence the reason for a forum post.
Anyway, on to addressing your points. "As for the original survivals being released at the same time that Online...." & "I don't see how some survivals having different mechanics that other survivals matters...." i didnt say mechanics. There is a fundimental logical difference between the original survivals and the current survivals.
I will concede on the varaible point, however something you should note is that route changes tend to override the better weapons & vehicles point, and weather changes dont play that much of a role in determing getting a WR or PB at this point. In races, you tend to be always on the same line and the only thing that determines getting a WR or PB is the car. Hence my argument for runs consitently invalidating each other with different cars instead of strats or new routes.
"What? Where does this arbitrary requirement come from? Are there videos of someone running all missions individually?..." I should have clarified that this point was in regards to adding the races as ILs, not "All x" catagories. That requirment is not a thing in this case. I just thought i would lump two arguments for All X and ILs
With all that said and done. Let me now take the time to address something. If this discussion was about adding the races as ILs, i would be against adding races as ILs because of the following:
Too many races to add, there is probably over hundreds of different races now. Speedrun.com cant handle it in regards to controllable varaibles and IL max catagories. To many empty catagories. This is where my point about finding people runs you've said they've done would come into play
Missions get a pass considering they where the secondary 'run' thing under heists and as such had people submit under them making them not completly empty. With the added bonus of R* compared to races, doesnt add missions as frequently.
But since this discussion is about adding a "All original open wheel races". Awnser me this, what would you suggest be the solution for the event that someone wants the open wheel races to include the other open wheel races that R* added?
Do we just add another catagory called "All second catagory of open wheel races" Do you just ignore their request and say though luck? Do you just merge the catagories together, in which case you get your original issue or the runs invalidating each other because R* added more open wheel races.
This is where my point suggesting that the survival run has an advantage because A. Its fundementally different on a code level. B. there was a 7 year timegap between R* adding new ones. C. The runs where submitted and ran before R* added new survivals
I'm not completly opposed to the suggestion of versioning the catagory and sorting by that. As long as people are ok with their run being essentially forgotten about because the run now suddenly got longer each update.
like the survivals are and only include the first 7 that were originally released.
The reason why there's a clear seperation for the survivals and that's because those survivals where the OG surivals with different mechanics.
R* hard coded them survivals where as the new survivals are now downloaded via their mission website as a json that is intepreted by the survival controller.
We did include at some point the catagory for the new survivals. But then new ones kept getting added and no one ran the catagory. So we removed it
"All Original Open Wheel Races" would only really apply if the open wheel races where in GTA:Online at day 1.
My original complaints against this are as follows.
There is too many varaibles to the run suggestion itself. The fact that races can be set with different groups of vehicles, custom vehicles, using co-op to boost each other using slipstream, limiting it to single player, etc.
Then you have the issue of R* adding more invalidating the catagory. R* have consitently added new races on each update or mid way through update periods. So there would be a constant series of invalidations.
Speedrun.com is not capable of handeling this sort of thing. If you want to go individual races, you would have to add each and every one which there is a lot. Like really, this is all R* really adds besides missions.
A point i made during the stream you brought this up in, not many people will run these. There is so many races and little demand that we'd just create empty ILs for the potential of someone running it. You've mentioned before that people do run some races, but unless you can gather up videos of someone running all races individually. Its not going to happen.
I'll leave this post up to see if other people want demand in it. I'm not completly opposed to the idea. I just have concerns and dont like to fill up the leaderboard with empty catagories
How long has this glitch existed for?
I looks like something that R* would patch out, considering they patched out a short route out of the casino and that didnt even involve a glitch, just a route people used.
If this glitch has existed since the casino heist. I would be inclined to allow it. Otherwise its a bit meh for me. If people want to use it. I guess go ahead. It saves a fair bit in terms of seconds, but i dont think its too run breaking.
Depends on the severity of the glitch. If its something that will be highly unlikly to patch and small. Fine. If its something that will probably be patched. Then no. Examples for both
Unlikly to be patched: Kerb bosting Likely to be patched: Creator Teleporting
Please indicate what the glitch is.
@negraru96 again, its far to specific. Adding those setups as ILs expecially in the main chatagory would massivly clutter up the board with un run catagories. Like i said previously, produce me 2 people who will run the catagory that is not just a full heist run.
As for the required hard difficulty, thats also a no for me. Simply because A. There are already loads of runs that run on easy, making it a hard requirment invalidates those runs and B. Speedruns are always aimed to get fastest times in the limits of what the game provides. Easy difficulty is in what the game provides, and thus is benifical to use. The only argument to only using hard is ego reasons. Its akin to saying that all runs should be required to use third or first person.
And thats a no on the PC vs Console. We're not splitting catagories based on platform, there is already a varaible and a filter you can sort by to do that. There is no advantage to running on pc than console since load times are taken out with the in heist time rule.
@Heroriks i've added those missions there. As for the heist final ILs. Thats a no go on adding them.
Mainly because the setup time required to run those catagories.
Its too specific. At that point i'd be having people ask me to add the setups indivdualy. Which is another couple of ILs that dont need to be added.
There exists a leaderboard for Elite challange times on the GTAForums if you really want that. So far only 2 people have expressed interest in adding them individually.
If you guys want it. Then produce two seperate runs from two different people then i'll consider adding it as an IL
The process has been completed. You may submit your runs under the relivent catagories. Thank you for your time if you've been waiting.
Hi Guys,
For the next couple of hours. I'll be moving all of your runs over to the new catagory layout to cutdown on tabs as requested by a multatude of users. This process will take a while and you will see runs be moved around and 4 new catagories get added.
If you are planning on submitting a run between now and during the move. Please submit the run to the old catagories as you would normally do and i'll move them over as i go through them.
Please do not submit anything to the new catagories untill the move is completed. I will post here when the process is done. By the final move the catagory board will look like this
Main Heists will be renamed to original heists as the name 'main' is ambigous and may change with the introduction of the diamond casio heist.
Each catagory will be broken down into sub varible catatagories. There will be 4 main catagories by the end of this process
Original Heists The Doomsday Heist The Diamond Casino Heist Misc
Original Heists will have the following varibles. Fleeca Prison Heist Humain Labs Serise A Pacific Standard All Heists Criminal Mastermind
Doomsday Heist will be broken down into Act I Act II Act III All Acts Criminal Mastermind
The Diamond Casino will be broken down into Silent And Sneaky Loud Big Con
When submitting a run, the only thing that will change is selecting another item from a dropdown. Submitting a run is done how you normally do it. Click the catagory you want, click submit run, select the heist or run you did. I.E fleec or All X and fill in the details and submit
Please note, in order to facilitate this change, all heists now has a non requirement for 4 people. This is because of fleeca requiring a max of 2 while all others have 4. Please fill out all 4 people for non fleeca runs.
Thank you for your time when reading this. And this process should be over in a couple of hours and shouldnt cause any complications.
Quick Edit: The 4th catagory is Misc for any other catagories that may be added in the future for whatever purpose. All Surivals, Casino Missions and other misc stuff will be under this as normal
If people are ok with my suggestion above, it would mean i would have to go through each submitted run and change their respective category varible
Just as i make that last post, the sub catagories are located under making a varible. In addition with catagory specific varibles. I appolgise for not knowing that in advance. I'll begin with taking on board the suggestions here regarding how the leaderboard will look.
So from what i can gather, people seem to like the idea of having the catagories be as followed
Main Heists, Doomsday Hesit, The Diamond Casino Heist
Under their respective catagories, their ILs
I.E
Main Heist -> Fleeca, Prison, Humain, All Heists, CM Doomsday -> Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, All Acts, CM The Diamond Casino -> Loud, Silent, Con, CM Misc -> All Other catagories
Thats interesting, i was not aware of that. I looked everwhere in the game settings tab and couldnt find anything related to subcatagories and assumed they where unsupported. I'm not aware of how to get subcatagories and i've messaged the mods of gta memes to fiqure out how to do it. Once i fiqure it out i guess we can take on board Derpeth suggestion of putting each of the ILs of the heist under their respective catagories.
I am still against making CM a varible as that means it will be compeating with the other all heists catagory which because of the rules in CM being a fair bit different would put it on unequal grounds.
The highlight for me is the Heist ILs themselves. which is why i moved the all X catagories under misc. I dunno, either we have 4 catagories. All X, and move all the IL heists under misc. Or we present them front and center. Or we put all the catagories up at once. Derpeth idea sounds good but Speedrun.com doesnt support sub catagories.
If you are talking about the 'beat mission solo/coop' catagories under the ILs. They are global for ILs and not specific.
In order of preference for visual solutions, mine would be
'Heist' ILs front and center with All under misc 'Heist' ILs in misc but All made front and center All catagories front and center.
Quick edit to add that Speedrun.com also doesnt support catagory specific varibles
Ok so here's the deal. Catagory has been added rules have been defined, see it in the catagory now. TL;DR for the rules is timer starts on vault contents since once you complete it. You dont have to do it again. If i see that there are other runs submitted in the different approches they other catagories will be added respectivly. The problem with dead catagories is that they sit around and just look bad. People in other games point out when a game has dead catagories which is why demand for the catagory needs to be there first. Since we now have one run (i hope by the time i type this. We can justify adding it), i added it. Sorry it took so long
Quick edit: I dont seem to get the notificaitons for fourm posts that often. Contact me on any other place, twitter or discord preferably and you will gain my attention quickly. I'm always active there compared to checking this once every week or so.
Should have added this, we do allow the disconnect glitch in the final heist as the heist still finishes at the end and someone sees the cutscene. People use this to get around the 48 minute wait timer that they dont want to wait on to do another run
Sorry we dont do just ILs for the final heists. If we allow it there would be room to argue for each setup to be its own IL and due to the complications of some setups and heist finals being time consuimg to get at. It wouldnt be worth it. If you wish to compare final heist times, there is a post on the GTA forums about that. They compare the Elite challange times as well
Yeah i agree with igunana. Just one catagory of The Dimond heist with how the players choose to run it is really all we need. I will add the catagory in when someone has a run ready to be submitted and does it for that matter. Last time a catagory was requested no one submitted a run and as such was removed.
