Welcome! Here you'll find changelogs of things done with the leaderboards so we have a nice history to reference. Questions or comments on any of the changes? Feel free to post!

11/13/18

Created this thread, created the leaderboards and moved stuff over a couple of days ago. Not much to note, just getting this going.

Hello new runner! Here are general rules to follow during any given run you may be doing for this game, including co-op specific rules near the bottom. Everything here applies across all categories unless the rules button popup for a specific category specifies otherwise. Please make sure to check those rules for each new category you try to be sure there isn't anything different. I dropped this in a thread to help clean up the rule pages and avoid the same long wall of text being everywhere.

NOTE: All Category Extension runs must be on Newest only!

Timer starts when your HUD appears in the first map. Ends on the last frame your HUD can be seen during the escape in the final map. Entering the rescue during the finale of each campaign must fully fade to black to count as completed.

For runs that have multiple campaigns, they can be played in any order you'd like, but each campaign must be played in a single server, from its first map to its last. You cannot switch Realism on or off mid-run, you must commit to what you started with.

All addons are banned from use. Video must be a live recording (not demo playback) and audio must be enabled and clear enough to confirm no addons were used.

Console commands protected under "sv_cheats" are banned during the run as well as the following: z_difficulty changelevel - added 27th Dec 2016 kick - added 19th April 2015 thirdpersonshoulder - added June 2017 jointeam - added August 2017 report_entities - added February 2018

The following console commands are allowed: map cl_viewmodelfovsurvivor cl_glow commands (for highlights) cl_crosshair commands cl_interp/ratio, cl_update/cmdrate cl_showpos

It is highly recommended you have the Livesplit autosplitter shown in your recording comparing to Game Time or have your recording set to capture the mouse cursor for most accurate load removal. Alternatively, you can accept a slight time loss by leaving the red "4" loading icon in the upper-right unobstructed to use instead. The autosplitter that removes loading times is available in the "Resources" section, or a tutorial on how to calculate a without loads time manually is available in the "Guides" section.

Milliseconds are used only as a tiebreaker, leave it 000 in all other instances.

Co-op specific: Video perspective of the first-loading player is required (likely the host). Can be completed with any number of 2, 3 or 4 players. Only players who were present at the start of the run and completed at least one whole campaign can be credited in the record.

See this other thread for a much deeper explanation on these various rules and why we came to the decisions we have: http://www.speedrun.com/l4d2/thread/wlk68

Run time starts when any element of your HUD appears in the first map. Ends on the last frame any element of your HUD can be seen during the escape in the final map. Entering the rescue during the finale of each campaign must fade to a completely black screen to count as completed. For runs starting on No Mercy, time starts when you enter first-person view.

It is not required to show a timer for a valid submission, unobstructed gameplay is all you need.

For runs that have multiple campaigns, they can be played in any order you'd like, but each campaign must be played in a single, unbroken instance, from its first map to its last. You cannot change game versions mid-run, you must commit to what you started with.

All addons are banned from use. Video must be recorded as you play (not demo playback) and be uncut for the duration of run time. Game audio must be clear enough to confirm no addons were used.

Console commands protected under "sv_cheats" are banned during the run as well as the following: z_difficulty changelevel ---------- December 27th 2016 kick ------------------- April 19th 2015 thirdpersonshoulder - June 2017 jointeam -------------- August 2017 report_entities -------- February 2018

The following console commands are allowed: map cl_viewmodelfovsurvivor cl_glow commands (for highlights) cl_crosshair commands cl_interp/ratio, cl_update/cmdrate cl_showpos

It is highly recommended to capture your mouse cursor for accurate load removal. Alternatively, you can accept a slight time loss by leaving the red "4" loading icon in the upper-right unobstructed instead. It’s also recommended to have the Livesplit autosplitter shown but it isn’t necessary for submission. The autosplitter is available by right-clicking in Livesplit, clicking “Edit Splits”, and clicking “Activate”. A tutorial on how to calculate a without loads time manually is available in the "Guides" section.

Milliseconds (ms) are used only as a tiebreaker, please leave it blank in all other instances.

Co-op specific: Video perspective of the first-loading player is required (likely the host). Can be completed with any number of 2, 3 or 4 players. Only players who were present at the start of the run and completed at least one whole campaign can be credited in the record.

See this other thread for a much deeper explanation on these various rules and why we came to the decisions we have: http://www.speedrun.com/l4d2/thread/wlk68

All that exists is "All Courses" with no defined rules. Should we set up categories for each individual theme like Ball Race?

What's going on with that video? It has a lot of jumping around about 6:40 into it where levels could have easily been skipped and it seems like deaths happened at some point but it's impossible to tell.

It doesn't seem right that a run can be submitted with a video that is impossible to verify with.

It is time. The custom campaign categories were worked on a while ago, and although I feel good picks were made overall, Yama turned out to be quite long and somewhat empty in the middle section. This thread is for discussing if Yama should be replaced before the custom campaigns are locked in and the full-game version of the category is created (which will be directly following this). The decision will not necessarily be made by a majority vote. I am looking for opinions to help me decide what to do with it, and also to decide what it will be replaced with.

When you submit your opinion I ask you to please not do so purely based on any time you have invested in practicing it (hardly anyone has) nor consider the two runs up already. Try to impartially decide based only on its merits of being speedrunnable, whether it's something you want to go through, if it has enough tricks, the length, and so on.

You can write any opinions down in this thread, but the priority is to vote on it in the following form so it's all neatly collected in one place, https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeZpH3GjpnREGsD-L8FoZ8OhpgxKAEiPxkrQloqT8ak2Ch3sA/viewform

I encourage you to crack Yama open and try it before submitting your opinion, as well as trying the other campaigns that could replace it if you'd like to. You have until this time is up! http://itsalmo.st/#timetodecideyamasfate_mvk09

Here are the workshop pages for all of the campaigns on the form,

Yama - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=170392241

Blood Tracks - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=377195503

Dark Blood - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121175467

Death Aboard - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=355946991

Detour Ahead - http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121275675

Highway to Hell - http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=175577491

Welcome to the official Fortnight Challenge thread, where you can discuss anything about the current challenge, how it works, and post ideas that you'd like to see for future challenges, as well as vote in polls now and then.

What is the Fortnight Challenge? It is a Full-game Leaderboard category which rotates its active challenge every two weeks. The challenges consist of the game being modified in various ways with its own rules, no potential change is off-limits! This makes for an interesting category that breaks away a bit from the regular game. Once a two-week cycle has ended the leaderboards have their placings recorded here as well as on the L4D Speedrunning Wiki and is replaced with the next challenge and its new ruleset. Make sure to always read the rules for each new challenge as they can change to be specific to it! The challenges run for 11 days from a Thursday night EST to the second Monday night EST, with three days off to allow for a break and plenty of time to get everything sorted out for a new challenge to be rotated in. Within the rules will be linked a countdown timer that you can use to see exactly when run submissions end.

It is encouraged to post here about the challenges and ideas you would like to see incorporated into future challenges, from small changes like movement speed or health, to big changes like modifying cheat-protected commands to change gameplay or modifying spawns. Again, nothing is off limits to explore, and different elements that compliment each other can be combined into one more interesting category, so anything you propose can be considered. I may cherrypick ideas and use them in future challenges.

The current challenge is One With Everything - A Buddhist Master goes to Treescrub and Treescrub asks him "Hey buddy, what can I make ya?" and the Buddhist Master replies, "make me one with everything". Addicted Blastoffman Driver is here! | The challenge ends... at some point? Leaving it open-ended for the time being!

You can find this challenge included in the One With Everything addon which can be: downloaded here.

[center]Last updated May 9th, 2017[/center]

Welcome, person that might have followed the link here from the rules! Here we will explore in more depth what each rule means, why it was made, and what you need to do to make sure your run is squeaky clean for submission. Thanks to bill_play3 for suggesting this thread.

[big][center]~ Timing Methods and Load Removal ~[/center][/big] You may be wondering why time is removed specifically for loads but not in other areas, such as cutscenes or events. Runs on this site are generally considered RTA (Real-Time Attack), where timing starts on gaining control and ends at the end of the category. This includes timing any scripted events in the game, including cutscenes. When a level ends the screen blurs for 2 seconds, then the scoreboard appears for 6.5 seconds, meaning that is actually a scripted sequence which lasts exactly 8.5 seconds before loading is triggered, and so only the amount of time the game is actually performing the load is removed. There is a significant difference in time between different machines in how long loading takes, even between runs on the same machine some months apart, so it is necessary to ensure the runs are timed fairly and accurately regardless of your hardware.

There are a few methods for removing your loading times. It is very highly recommended that you either use the available autosplitter (this is still a work in progress for L4D1) or ensure your recording has the option set to capture your mouse cursor. The final method is by using the red loading icon in the upper-right. The mouse cursor is preferred as it always appears the moment loading initiates, while the loading icon has a chance to show up late by a single frame. Since using that mark would mean you are including more actual loading time in your run, if you forget to capture your mouse cursor or do not want to use the autosplitter (again, it's still being ported), you do accept the time loss by having to use the loading icon as a backup.

[big][center]~ Timing Co-op Runs ~[/center][/big] Removing loads for a co-op run is a tricky thing, and unfortunately we have no means at this time to force all players to load in together. The best way, then, is to require that the player who loads in first (always the host of the server) has their perspective recorded so that it can be timed by their map loads, resuming timing the moment the first player enters the next map. Without this, another player could be loading first and taking any number of actions or gaining ground in the map while the time is still paused for another player that is still loading in.

If any players that are not the host finish loading before he does, their game will actually wait for the host to complete his load while they wait to come in themselves. You can force players to load closer together in this way by using the "Local Server" option through the main menu with a player that has slower loading times than others in the group.

The current situation for co-op timing isn't entirely ideal, but it is the best that currently exists and is far more fair than not removing loads at all. We've tried methods to force all players to load in simultaneously but nothing has worked so far. Maybe some day...

[big][center]~ Why Certain Addons are Allowed or Banned ~[/center][/big] A subject of some debate, the addon rules are currently lax, attempting to allow what doesn't give an advantage to gameplay so that players can use addons they like if they so choose to, and banning addons which give advantages. An example of addons that would give an advantage would be changes to special infected skins (like bright white) so they are easier to see, changing the sounds they make so they are more noticeable and easier to react to, and so on. HUD elements are usually for personal preference so it was allowed. Weapon and survivor skins were allowed since they are already so easy to see with the built-in highlights.

There has been discussion on if addons should all be banned outright so that there isn't any grey area and all of these confusing exceptions, but since there hasn't yet been an issue with submissions abusing them, it has stayed lax so far.

[big][center]~ About Those Banned Console Commands ~[/center][/big] In addition to commands protected by sv_cheats, there are some more not protected by a cheat flag which still aren't allowed. Criteria for banning a command could be based on some simple questions, such as:

*Can it be used by the client, or only by the server?

Is it available as an option in the menu system, or only possible through the console?

Does it bypass an element of regular gameplay?*

"z_difficulty" was disallowed because it can only be executed by the server, not the client. This means it couldn't be used in official Valve servers, either. It also bypasses the cooldown timer in the voting system for newer versions of the game.

"changelevel" was disallowed also because it can only be executed by the server, and because it badly breaks the intro cinematic in a way not otherwise possible through regular gameplay if you use it to switch to the first map of a campaign.

"kick" was disallowed again because it can only be executed by the server and is not otherwise available to be used at any time you'd like. An exception was found later in the Dark Carnival finale that uses a developer oversight to force the bots to be kicked from the server, and this method was allowed since it occurs during regular gameplay. Click here for a thread with more details on how it works.

[big][center]~ Using Milliseconds to Break Ties ~[/center][/big] Eventually times were lowered enough to where a whole-second tie was uncommon, but did start to happen. Milliseconds were enabled when submitting times so that they could be used to determine who was truly faster. It is not used when regularly submitting because it makes the leaderboards look very cluttered for an unnecessary bit of information when most runs are full seconds apart. Keeping the Millisecond field at 000 will cause it not to show on the leaderboards at all, so that is required unless your run ties another (for example, you both have 11m22s), in which case a moderator will time them both precisely to break the tie.

It is time! Time to discuss the Bi-Weekly Challenge leaderboard that I've been talking about for so long. I finally have more time to dedicate to getting it up. As always, comment on all ideas below and anything else that may come to your mind.

This thread is for discussing the basic idea of the "category" itself, including how often it rotates, how to handle creating the rules and applying them for runs, and whatever else comes up. This is NOT the thread yet for discussing actually running the category as far as challenge ideas or the currently active challenge. That will be its own official thread later. This thread is to get the functionality of how it works done.

The proposed idea is a single, temporary category, likely on its own tab in the Full-game Leaderboard, which rotates its ruleset every X amount of days. It will have "challenges" which are crazy ideas that make for a much different run than usual, the crazier the better and anything can potentially be used to build one of these challenges, including modifying cheat commands.

How the rotation would work is that the category under the Full-game Leaderboard will be created for a new challenge, possibly reading as something like "Challenge - Jockpocalypse", Jockpockalypse being the title of the current challenge. It will have its own rules when you click the view rules button that is specific to the challenge, including either a mutation to use that will set the environment to run it all up for you (ideal, this is being investigated), or perhaps a config with the commands ready that can be executed once in-game. When the challenge is ready to be rotated, the leaderboards will be screenshotted, written out and preserved on the wiki and a thread here, and then deleted and replaced with a new one with new rules and all. I'm pretty sure deleting a category doesn't actually remove the runs and readding a category of the same name will restore it as it was. I still aim to test that.

Originally I conceptualized it as a weekly challenge since that came to mind immediately, but then I worked through that and realized bi-weekly (every second week) made more sense. I am thinking of running it for 10 days on, 4 off, then the rotation. There are many reasons for this. First, seven days may be just a bit too low to get some good runs in before a challenge rotates. It may also be difficult to delete and replace a category with a new one all at once, so four days off gives plenty of time to be sure I can slot a new one in time and do the leaderboard preservation. Having time off leaves other categories more open to run. It will run through challenges at a slower pace, making it easier to keep up with making new ones. This also allows a challenge to run through two weekends, maybe starting sometime Friday and ending the second Monday? Need to figure out what range allows all timezones to get a full Saturday and Sunday twice over.

I am thinking of holding a vote after every 4? 5? 6? challenges to bring back a previously run challenge, or still continue to a new one, in case we really like one and want to revisit it after a while. Hopefully the leaderboards will preserve as I hope so when one is readded all old runs are still there.

I still need to work on actually getting the environment for a challenge done enough (figuring out mutation or config and rules) of one challenge before the category can go up, so it will be a bit. I do have quite a few ideas already to support it for a while, once they are set up and confirmed to be interesting enough.

**[center]Last updated September 25th, 2017, with the removal of the "About that snd_rebuildaudiocache thing" section since it's fixed in the modern downloads now. Also updated the addon section to "Why Addons are Banned" to reflect the new rules.[/center]**

Welcome, person that might have followed the link here from the rules! Here we will explore in more depth what each rule means, why it was made, and what you need to do to make sure your run is squeaky clean for submission. Thanks to bill_play3 for suggesting this thread.

[big][center]~ Timing Methods and Load Removal ~[/center][/big] You may be wondering why time is removed specifically for loads but not in other areas, such as cutscenes or events. Runs on this site are generally considered RTA* (Real-Time Attack) *where timing starts on gaining control and ends at the end of the category. This includes timing any scripted events in the game, including cutscenes. When a level ends the screen blurs for 2 seconds, then the scoreboard appears for 6.5 seconds, meaning that is actually a scripted sequence which lasts exactly 8.5 seconds before loading is triggered, and so only the amount of time the game is actually performing the load is removed. There is a significant difference in time between different machines in how long loading takes, even between runs on the same machine some months apart, so it is necessary to ensure the runs are timed fairly and accurately regardless of your hardware.

There are a few methods for removing your loading times. It is very highly recommended that you include in your recording either the available autosplitter running in Livesplit set to Game Time* (which can be changed by right-clicking the splits, hovering over Compare Against, and clicking Game Time) or ensure your recording has the option set to capture your mouse cursor. The final method is by using the red loading icon in the upper-right. The mouse cursor is preferred as it always appears the moment loading initiates, while the loading icon in most versions has a chance to show up late by a single frame, and in the case of game version 2.0.2.7 (which is widely used) *it can show up roughly a quarter of a second late! Since using that mark would mean you are including more actual loading time in your run, if you forget to capture your mouse cursor or do not want to use the autosplitter since it can be laggy on some systems, you do accept the time loss by having to use the loading icon as a backup.

[big][center]~ Timing Co-op Runs ~[/center][/big] Removing loads for a co-op run is a tricky thing, and unfortunately we have no means at this time to force all players to load in together. The best way, then, is to require that the player who loads in first* (always the host of the server) *has their perspective recorded so that it can be timed by their map loads, resuming timing the moment the first player enters the next map. Without this, another player could be loading first and taking any number of actions or gaining ground in the map while the time is still paused for another player that is still loading in.

If any players that are not the host finish loading before he does, their game will actually wait for the host to complete his load while they wait to come in themselves. You can force players to load closer together in this way by using the "Local Server" option through the main menu with a player that has slower loading times than others in the group.

The current situation for co-op timing isn't entirely ideal, but it is the best that currently exists and is far more fair than not removing loads at all. We've tried methods to force all players to load in simultaneously but nothing has worked so far. Maybe some day...

[big][center]~ Why Addons are Banned ~[/center][/big] All addons were disallowed because any particular one could potentially lead to an advantage for one player over another. An example of addons that would give an advantage would be changes to special infected skins* (like bright white) *so they are easier to see, changing the sounds they make so they are more noticeable and easier to react to, changing item skins or models so that it is easier to see where they spawn, and so on. Banning all addons outright keeps the rules much more simple and ensures that everybody is on equal footing, playing the game the way it was originally intended.

[big][center]~ About Those Banned Console Commands ~[/center][/big] In addition to commands protected by sv_cheats, there are some more not protected by a cheat flag which still aren't allowed. Criteria for banning a command could be based on some simple questions, such as:

*Can it be used by the client, or only by the server?

Is it available as an option in the menu system, or only possible through the console?

Does it bypass an element of regular gameplay?*

"z_difficulty" was disallowed because it can only be executed by the server, not the client. This means it couldn't be used in official Valve servers, either. It also bypasses the cooldown timer in the voting system for newer versions of the game.

"changelevel" was disallowed also because it can only be executed by the server, and because it badly breaks the intro cinematic in a way not otherwise possible through regular gameplay if you use it to switch to the first map of a campaign.

"kick" was disallowed again because it can only be executed by the server and is not otherwise available to be used at any time you'd like. An exception was found later in the Dark Carnival finale that uses a developer oversight to force the bots to be kicked from the server, and this method was allowed since it occurs during regular gameplay. Click here for a thread with more details on how it works.

[big][center]~ Using Milliseconds to Break Ties ~[/center][/big] Eventually times were lowered enough to where a whole-second tie was uncommon, but did start to happen. Milliseconds were enabled when submitting times so that they could be used to determine who was truly faster. It is not used when regularly submitting because it makes the leaderboards look very cluttered for an unnecessary bit of information when most runs are full seconds apart. Keeping the Millisecond field at 000 will cause it not to show on the leaderboards at all, so that is required unless your run ties another* (for example, you both have 11m22s) *in which case a moderator will time them both precisely to break the tie.

Firstly, any changes currently being experimented with on adding difficulty is being done on the Death Toll Solo category, so you can check there if you'd like to see what the current state of this looks like.

I'm looking to finally add a difficulty subcategory to all categories so that there can be a default category for the way we've been running, and another category for the highest difficulty for completion's sake to say "I did all of the things!" There seems to be some demand for Expert runs seeing all of them uploaded to YouTube and the comments on GDQ runs, and I do see the value in speedrunning the game in its most complete state. It isn't unusual for a game to have separate categories for other difficulties, or at least the one for the highest.

Mechanically, the run will work by being classified as the lowest difficulty ever played for any amount of time during the run. Voting for Easy accidentally would invalidate it being submitted as the higher difficulty, and this will be stated in the rules.

Normal and Advanced difficulties will not have their own categories as that just clogs up the place and realistically won't be run as they aren't much different.

There are just a couple more things to figure out...

What to name the default, lowest difficulty category? It could be named "Easy", but that may be odd since we switch difficulties to kill AI. It could also be named "Any", "Any Difficulty", "Noob". There are some options, and feel free to suggest others if you can think of any. This name can be changed retroactively so it isn't dire to figure out immediately, but I would like to solve it right away if possible.

Should the higher difficulty category be Expert....... or should we go all out and make it Expert Realism? For completion and to match other uploaded runs, Expert Realism would actually make more sense. I'm on the fence with this one.

The conversation came up in Discord today so here's a thread to discuss it. Should the "map" command in the console be allowed during a run at the end of a campaign to switch to the next?

Currently, changelevel is disallowed since it is a server-side command (meaning it wouldn't work in an official server) and breaks the intro cinematic of the campaign switched to.

The "map" command instantly launches a listen server on the specified map. This does not break the intro cinematic, and it is arguable if it's a server command or not as it launches a new server, not exactly affecting the server you're currently in besides closing it if you were already the host.

My opinion on the matter is that it will bypass the vote creation timer (relevant to All Campaigns) and could be used to instantly switch campaigns once the end credits sequence starts, removing the need to time your campaign vote and also bypassing the voting lock they have when said sequence begins. Also the fact that it's borderline a server-side command as those are disallowed (changelevel, kick, z_difficulty) in part because they can't be used on an official server. Technically this can be used on an official server, it will just remove you from it completely and place you on your own.

It's also a quandary if this command is "intended" for use or not, since the lobby system has an option to launch on a local server. You could either argue that the lobby proves it is an intended command, but you could also argue that the lobby proves it isn't an intended command since the lobby is the system they have in place to use it.

Looking for opinions.

That's right, we have an "official" speedrun.com L4D speedrunning Discord server! If you're looking to get started it is a great place to go to ask questions and get help, and if you're a veteran there is plenty of discussion about new strategies as well as people looking to group up with others for co-op runs.

Check it out! https://discord.gg/HHJcT5C

We had a lengthy discussion in Discord today about if the changelevel command should be allowed in a run to rotate campaigns. When utilizing this command for changing maps to the beginning of a campaign, the normal intro cinematic will break and you will have partial control immediately sans moving your view until the "cutscene" in the background finishes.

Using changelevel in the console is the only circumstance under which the intro cinematics break, all other ways they will play normally. Keeping it would have been because a couple of accepted runs previously used it, and it isn't cheat-protected (although other non-cheat commands aren't allowed).

The reasons against using it were,

• There is no option through the intended game menus that cause the same effect, it can only happen using the console command.

• It will bypass the vote creation timer (3 minute wait between votes) that exists in version 2.0.9.1 and up, which means All Campaigns would be affected by this.

• It adds bots back to the server that were previously kicked by a Dark Carnival bug, when otherwise there is no other way to get them back besides restarting the server entirely.

• Most importantly, and what made the decision easy, is that unlike all other commands which are allowed, changelevel cannot be used on a Valve official server, only by the host themself.

With all of this considered a decision was reached to flatly disallow the usage of changelevel to rotate campaigns and break the intros and the rules have been updated to reflect that. Legacy runs using this are kept as making the rule retroactive is unfair, and they are easily beaten regardless since many new tricks have been found.

Thus concludes a L4D2 leaderboard history lesson!

Hey folks, just a quick note that, when you submit the time in your run, please leave the milliseconds field 000 so it doesn't show on the leaderboards. The millisecond setting was instituted only to break a tie. Seeing that the vast majority of runs are still whole seconds apart it isn't necessary otherwise since it introduces clutter.

Hello everybody, today I received quite the surprise when I saw I was added as a series mod, hooray! I don't want to make drastic changes right away since I am coming into an established community (albeit a fairly vacant one at the moment) so here we have this thread.

For some time now I've been deeply involved in the L4D2 leaderboards and have worked with others there making changes to timing, etching out new rules, and so on. Now that I have the ability to do things here as well I would like to post about proposed changes that can be made to bring things in line with what's going on in the much more active L4D2 portion of the series so that both games have rules much closer to each other.

I see demo timing is used for RTA runs and there was discussion about that a while ago. In L4D2, we now use RTA with strictly the loads taken out to time easily and fairly, as the scoreboard appears for a consistent, scripted time and loads can be removed based on how long the icon shows in the upper-right. I assume that L4D1 will work the same which is something I plan to investigate. Demo timing has a very high barrier of entry for new runners especially and recording them is not the easiest during a run. Considering RTA runs are supposed to be timed beginning to end and the scoreboard is essentially a cutscene in this game, it seems to make more sense to keep all of that and time via video as we've been doing with L4D2. I'd like to change that here. We should be able to accurately re-time runs submitted here retroactively by adding whatever the flat time is from the end of a demo to loading start. I'll be investigating this further to make sure I have the right system in place to get correct times.

Videos should absolutely be necessary for every submission. Requiring people to contact the runners for demos just to see what a run looks like is pretty unreasonable.

I'm still working on trying to figure out how to best handle adding Expert (and lower) to the L4D2 boards. That could be ported here eventually.

I'd like to split co-op and solo categories so solo runs become viable. It's the most popular in L4D2 and is an attractive option for new runners that don't want the pressure of running with a team or, even more importantly, can't get a good team together to compete. Spectators seem impressed that one person can complete the game by themselves, too.

I'll post more if I think of anything. Hope to hear from some of you guys soon. I will likely go ahead with making changes if there isn't a response for a while, just wanted to make sure I try to voice everything first for discussion.

Welcome! Here you'll find changelogs of things done with the leaderboards so we have a nice history to reference. Questions or comments on any of the changes? Feel free to post!

December 6th 2016,

Created a load removal tutorial and posted it to the Guides section. Quickly wrote a paragraph and inserted it into all rules which references the autosplitter in Resources and this video in the Guides section so the information is out there ASAP. Too late to do other stuff, more coming soon.

I have no idea how this procedure works on this site so hopefully I'm not barking up the wrong tree, but I have been toying with the idea and would like to request moderator status. This is the most serious speedrunning I've done thus far, and by far the most I've been and possibly ever will be involved in a speedrunning community. I care about this game and the series has always been one of my favorites, dating all the way back to launch when I spent hours in Versus daily honing my high pounces and rock throws. I never knew back then how great it was to speedrun, and now here we are...

I'd say it's a fair statement that I am pretty deeply involved in speedrunning this game and working with its community currently. My list of accomplishments up to now would include submitting (with deagle) the campaign voting script, creating handy speedrunning tutorials to teach new players (thanks for the co-op help, Scibsj!), streaming it very often inspiring an influx of new runners (this also led to an autosplitter, thanks bill_play3!), pushing WR's low enough to encourage removing load times so it's fairer for everybody to compete, finding many tricks and optimizations / figuring out how to set up known tricks, and working hard on making sure the new custom campaign categories are the best they can be along with, of course, the others that are helping find and experiment with campaigns as well.

If elected as your new moderator, there are a few things I would like to improve. All ideas are encouraged to be discussed and argued against, for, or changed. Any moderator could enact these currently, but since I am very active I may as well go for it if we're all in agreement, and I can help to accept runs and make other changes now and into the future as I don't plan to be going anywhere. Regardless, I'd still like to toss around these proposed changes anyway. I would like to...

• Maybe remove the "Platform" column to reduce clutter? Darkossz proposed removing consoles originally, realistically consoles will not be able to compete and nobody is running them now nor would I really expect anybody to in the future. Definitely open to discuss this, however, since many other games have platform differentiation even if nobody submits anything but PC. Pretty much there for completion's sake.

• Add a difficulty column that is based on the lowest difficulty played in the run, so submitting things like Expert becomes viable and will essentially have its own leaderboard by sorting via difficulty. Expert doesn't change a lot, but there is no denying the sheer volume of spectators that feel the lowest difficulty is cheap. I've been saying recently that speedrunning is half a spectator sport, so I think there is value in running on the highest difficulty to say you've run the game at the most it has to offer. Unsure if Realism should fit in anywhere? Might warrant more discussion.

• Modify the rules to explain the new loadless method, particularly mentioning in co-op that the timer resumes on the first person loaded in. Also a brief mention on how to submit difficulty assuming that column is added.

• Work on converting more top times to loadless, and see what the boards do if all legacy times are moved to the with loads column. This will be reverted if it makes things weird but I want to try because it's inaccurate as it is right now.

• Reorder the version number dropdown in submissions so default is Newest (most likely choice for newbies) and it descends in order they are likely to be used. If the platform choice is kept, also reorder that so PC is default since it's easy to make the mistake and leave it PS3 right now.

• Create nifty icons to replace the first through third place trophies? I've always wanted unique ones that relate to the game like they do with Super Mario 64 and stuff, definitely up for ideas on what would be cool.

No matter which way we go with any of this, I just want to take a moment to thank you guys all around here for being involved and for sticking with me in stream all this time, helping build viewership and keep my sanity through countless Sacrifice Solo restarts. There is no way I could have ever predicted how involved and how far I'd get before I started early this year and it's been a good ride thus far. <3

We are going to try getting the IL records soon and can't quite pin down when we should actually cut the frames to get the final time. Using the current No Mercy record as an example, we can't seem to find a way to reach the same 10:37 time as was submitted utilizing that video. Cutting at various points including removing the entirety of the scoreboards, the time still comes out slower than what was submitted.

I figured just the loads (when the little logo shows in the corner) would be the mark to remove at but that turns up a time significantly slower. That's when it really should be removed, anyway, as the scoreboard is not part of the actual loading process and is part of the game.

Perhaps it was timed via demos?

The AGDQ submissions opened today and will be available for a week, and we would like to have a proper run submitted (rather than our current awful temporary one) for the committee to see while they are making selections. It has been a little while since the submission and indeed it seems to take quite a long time around here for review, so hopefully posting about it will get it seen.

I'll message directly if a few more days go by without any activity. I do see flicky was on five hours ago.