I replied to Mizzow but just in case it doesn't get relayed: I'm past trying to have discussions after the small bit of drama that I won't highlight the details of.

I'll leave my final words here then you guys can do whatever you want. I had hoped criticism could be taken maturely but it's clear that by objecting to flawed logic and inconsistency, I've apparently offended people enough to warrant not having a discussion or getting feedback at all. Even after I personally messaged several of them in polite request to look at my forum post - the exception is you, Serge,because I couldn't find you on discord to send a message.

After 3 days of waiting I didn't care anymore and I've decided to do my own thing. With the feedback I received by other FF9 runners, I thought carefully about a list of enemies with a solid criteria on what classifies as a boss and with a "kill all bosses" goal in mind. The results are here: https://pastebin.com/sayLDH9c

The 2 biggest differences are:

1. I don't consider repeating enemies like Red Dragons to be bosses because if that ruling were consistent, it'd also require all the Alexandrian Soldiers and possibly Bandersnatches (if they don't respawn). These are just normal enemies in fixed encounters and I don't want to spend extra time on arbitrary objectives. You should also require the Treno Shop monsters by this logic as they are fixed encounters. Either require all fixed encounters with normal enemies, or none of them at all.

2. I defeat everything possible - no entire party KO'ing is allowed ever. The obvious exceptions are Steiner 3 and Armodullahan because you can't defeat them. Encountering and fleeing from Armodullahan is, again, an arbitrary objective. Ignoring nonsense speculation, defeating Beatrix 1 is also 100% free with 4 characters, so overall there really is no problem with this rule, it makes perfect sense as a concept and an objective.

In conclusion: I gave the best examples of why the document rule-set doesn't work and other people that have seen it also agree without my bias being a part of their opinion. The difference is you don't hear their feedback because they couldn't care less what you/we do with a category that has nothing to do with them and they have no intention of running. Eventually it would come down to a vote and apparently I'm alone in arguing for the logic of "pick a clear objective", so now I'm picking a clear objective for myself. Good luck with whatever you guys decide to do.

Now that I've had time to talk to a few people, I honestly feel the same way. I've heard opinions very similar to yours multiple times that all focus on the theme of killing everything, and I trust them because if it's easy enough for people that are not at all interested in the category to grasp, then it should be more than simple enough for runners that are interested. Overall I believe this should be the target - for all parties to understand as best and simply as possible. Initially I thought "do anything you want to end any battle" sounded more appropriate because it fits more into a no-restrictions way of playing, like "as long as it's not a game over" condition I tried to explain. Discussions have quickly enlightened to the reason to run All Bosses in the first place: to fight stuff you'd normally skip.

The point I was trying to convey when presenting "kill everything" as the second solution is to make sure it applies to everything, so as an example we'd fight both Masked Man and Zaghnol, because victory over the Zaghnol itself is the goal and not the Festival of the Hunt. Self KO still worked as a victory in my previous mindset with "anything goes", but obviously does not when considering "defeat" being the key word.

A definition or explanation of what exactly defeating/killing a boss enemy entails would be pretty much the foundation, as this could easily apply to 100% of boss encounters in the game with no alternate ways to end (we don't know of any glitches/bugs so let's worry about All Bosses Glitchless another day if it ever comes to it), leaving no confusion for win conditions.

The list of enemies/encounters that classify as bosses is the easy part to work on I think, the current list has been put together well and I also wouldn't be sad to see anything go (especially Armodullahan). I assume everyone who voted on the current document is also (still) okay with the list of enemies(?)

Hello everyone! I apologise for the lateness to have input on this, I think I’ve caught up on the results of your discussions and want to present a choice of 2 solutions. This might be a little long because I’m trying to comment on everything at once that you guys have discussed over multiple hours and days, I’ll try to provide a tl;dr at the bottom for those that want to skip the details and quickly see what I'm going for, as I'm sure the focus of "consistency" is something we can all agree on.

Trying to specify what is "intended" by the game is over complicated and subjective. A victory in FFIX fixed fights is doing whatever possible to end the encounter because you proceed with the game afterwards. There is no such thing as a draw, the only other possible outcome is a loss, which is clearly shown as Game Over. For example, waiting out Beatrix 1, 2 or 3 for 10 turns all work thematically and objectively because surviving is still a perfectly viable win condition, you can still lose, and for flavour’s sake you are still PLAYING the game.

This is the document I've received for the currently agreed upon rule-set which I will be talking about: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xzJ0sft6mUN3ApIrsId-CsHwfCahg536WD9upGGGDlE/edit#gid=0

Dealing damage is sometimes an option, not always a requirement. The ONLY reason it’s a requirement by default for most encounters is because there is literally no other way to end the encounter. This is important to remember because it removes the unnecessary and purely opinionated decisions of certain methods being intended whereas others aren’t.

The 2 main examples of the document I want to address are:

• Masked Man: This is a fight that is impossible to lose unless you cheat and softlock. Opinions on whether KOing yourself or depleting Masked Man’s HP is more “intended” are irrelevant, I would argue that the cutscene after the fight makes it more “intended” for the party to lose, but I digress. If there is a way other than winning, you get a Game Over screen. Multiple ways to win means the choice can/should be entirely yours, just like it is for all Beatrix fights, Zaghnol, and Armodullahan.

• Zaghnol: Agreed, my view is it can be defeated by self KO or killing, but ONLY because the game gives you the freedom to, and definitely not because self KOing “completes the objective of one party member still winning the Festival of the Hunt” like the document says. This one is such a head scratcher, I can’t explain my confusion how the monster/encounter credit has been completely disregarded for the irrelevant story event that is nothing to do with the speedrun.

This inconsistency in the ruleset needs to be addressed. Personally, I prefer the freedom to end encounters however possible, although there is the second solution.

With “All Bosses” it becomes fair to suggest something more like: “boss encounters must be ended by defeating the relevant enemy at least once.” For the sake of tedious argument you could put an explanation of what “defeat” is at the top: -Example: Death; either Doom or Instant, reducing HP to 0, or status ailments: Petrify, Stop, and Venom - which by the way should be perfectly allowed options for Red Dragons if the player wants to, this isn’t in the document whether it was actively decided against or an oversight.

I suggest removing the “defeat by reducing X’s HP to 0” text from everything, it’s completely useless information as everything except Red Dragons HAVE to be fought like that anyway. The objective column could then state (if we’re going for the “kill everything” rule) the specific target(s) of the encounter: -Example: Prison Cage 1: Defeat Prison Cage This ensures clarity that only the target "Prison Cage" needs to die even though Garnet is also flagged as a boss target.

I am happy to discuss either idea further, I have full confidence that one rule or the other must be broadly applied for this category to make sense. There can always be exceptions which are also open to debate, I’m extremely against this conditional treatment for every encounter by default, especially when things like Beatrix's logic is simple and secure, and Zaghnol’s reasoning makes absolutely no sense at all.

Looking forward to your feedback, Cheers

tl;dr There is absolutely no way to justify being allowed to self KO on Zaghnol but not Masked Man, it is a completely arbitrary inconsistency and ignores objective conditions and factors of the game state. There is no such thing as intentions by the game, ALL ways are intended, if it was not intended, you would not be able to continue without some sort of glitch/bug exploit. If you want to go down the “defeat” should be the key word” road, apply it to ALL boss encounters.

Hi, I'd like to request this game to be deleted please: https://www.speedrun.com/Psychic_Force Originally a friend and I were doing races on it but he never submitted a run so it's been empty (other than my run that was up), I left it open for some months in the off chance someone else might run it too, but that never happened.

Sorry if this isn't the right place to make this request, I didn't know where else to post (tried looking around a bit).

Thanks for your time

Thank you very much!!