I'm not aware of any game that would disallow you from using notes, notepads, spreadsheets and such at your disposal for use in runs in real time.

What would be disallowed is using an emulator or any sort of tool to pull info from RAM in real-time while performing a run.

But as far as having a complete list of questions and answers in your game available to your while you are running? That's no problem.

Is what allowed?

99% of those games listed have been on this site way before "FC" was ever an option as a console. I, someone who mods more than one NES game that isn't on your list, but probably would be, didn't even know they added it. That just explains why it is as such.

An NES and the FC utilize the same hardware. Plenty of games exist on both, and will function the same. Plenty of games also exist on both, but function differently, either game play, or aesthetically. An NES board isn't probably going to separate the two regions into two separate leaderboards, unless the game functions just vastly differently. For games that have minute differences, most people would just play the Japanese release anyways.

That being said, you'd have to contact all those boards separately to get things updated. Don't think they'll necessarily all converge here. I'll take a look at my boards to see if any can be updated.

Apologies, just seeing this; notifications still getting delayed.

"Tournament" is effectively a full game fun, as it's necessary to beat it to get to the credits screen. I'm happy to add that as a full-game run, with US and Japan as subs.

I can add the other variants of gameplay as well.

Hm, if no one is going to be submitting runs, then I will hold off on any changes pending whatever site wide changes to the IL boards they are supposedly working on.

I think numbers will ultimately be easier to navigate.

Yeah, I remember back in the day trying to originally get the board set up, thinking it would be so nice and easy lmao. But as I started entering them in, I as I got like 10 levels in that is going to be more stupidly complicated that I could have imagined.

I should be able to get it all updated this week without much issue. I'm thinking that it might also help navigate the board if we used Fun 1, Fun 2, Fun 3, Tricky 1, etc. That will sprinkle in a few more N/A times in the middle and in the end, but it might look a little cleaner, and I think I can make like that work as well. Let me know if that seems workable.

And sorry for the longwindedness, lol, it's hard to articulate quickly some of the shortfalls on the backend on moderating for this site.

"think if you picked either level numbers or level names it would work pretty easily. it's having both that is causing the IL issue. if you just had level 1 2 3 ... 100 etc then ya can just categorize the consoles."

Either technically work; just pointing out that if you are putting in order of their names; then there will be gaps in basically most ports with those levels with N/A times. There is no actual way around this, at least with how the back end of the boards are currently set up.

Now if you just used numbers, and went with the port with the largest number of levels specific to Lemmings, which I believe would be 180 (though you might need a few extra to cover levels that are in other ports, but not Genesis, if there any to be accounted for).

So, yes, you could have Levels "1" - "180", and then all the N/A's for pretty much every port (with the exception of SNES's 125, all other versions are 120 levels or less), so that's 60 N/A time per port. But if you did it this way, all that N/A's would be listed at the bottom.

Though it should be noted, that if you were looking at all the times on "21", you'd actually be comparing different levels in reality. So, it wouldn't actually line up in that regards... you wouldn't actually be comparing the same level in the Genesis port to the level in the NES port.

Again, in the "Live and Let Lem" example, if you were looking at this hypothetical board, all the "21" Level times for SNES/Genesis would match up, so you'd actually have the times from the same levels next to each other to comparison. But on the NES column for "21", you'd be looking at a different level entirely, and to compare the NES column Level 21, you'd actually have to look at level "25" on Genesis to compare how that specific level actually differed on different platforms.

So if "A" is referring to Level Names, you'd have the exact same issue without numbers. "B", removing the names of the levels and leaving just the numbers would be possible, as described above.

"honestly kinda like vypr's format. it reminds me of other boards with lots of ILs. you can just look at the all levels page and see what consoles did what level faster."

I mean, it's pretty much an either/or scenario.

If you left the names and remove the numbers, that can be done, but you will have N/A's through the leaderboard, not at the end of all the other runs for that port. That would align all the levels correctly across all ports so that they can be compared, against one another (which the couple exceptions where the levels were replaced in one port for another).

If you left the numbers and remove the names, then all the N/A times would be listed at the bottom of each port, but the levels are not going to align, so you will not be comparing the same level across each column (with the exception of like the first couple levels).

"If the levels name match up. those can be used, if not, i'd just drop the level names and go to strictly numbers."

I mean, I'm not sure how that's really going to work with scenarios like this:

"Genesis 034 The ascending pillar scenario is the same level as DOS 037 Been there, seen it, done it."

I mean, like... maybe if I saw how that would be handled in a spreadsheet, that might give me an idea?

"right now the board doesn't even show times for maps being ran. the NES 001 Just dig for instance on the all levels page is blank, but multiple runs have been done on the NES subvariable. Only the DOS/Amiga show up.

so right now, at this moment. the board shows less than 10 runs for ILs. i understand that some may not lineup correctly, but let's at least get the 80% that aren't showing up now, at least showing up. then figure out a solution for the last 20%."

This was already fixed, per my last post, when I removed the sub variable. That's the result of a recent bug on SR.com, which I assume will never be fixed.

In any case, I don't really care either way, but yeah, I mean, I can't make the board do anything that's it not capable of doing; like there are actual limitations here. So, just want to be clear here, the resulting look of some of these proposes changes are not going to look exactly like they are worded in parts of this thread. That being said; I don't believe anyone who runs this game is going to object either way, as no one does IL runs, so I don't mind setting it up either way. But, just like I said, want to be clear here that the end result on same of these changes are not going to result in what is being hoped for in some parts here.

So, I was looking over the IL situation more carefully; It seems to me that the simplest solution at the moment for at least making the IL board actually function, is to remove the sub variable from the IL boards, and just deal with splitting DOS/Amiga later in if/when it's determined to really be necessary.

With that gone, board functions again, at least.

@VyPr

The main issue you will run into here is with numbers. I guess the easiest way to point this out...

You Live and Lem is Level 18 on NES, Level 21 on Amiga/DOS, SMS, SNES, it's Level 20 on Windows 95, and Level 13 on the ZS and CPC.

So, with the statement "Any levels that are available only on specific ports would be listed at the bottom," isn't going to be quite accurate. You will not be able to align the level numbers to level names anymore. You could list all the names without numbers, putting N/A for the missing levels in various ports, but they will be sprinkled throughout the leaderboard, and will likely make up to over 50% of the leaderboard. I'm also not 100%, but pretty sure some levels will inevitably have to be out of order for some ports and not others.

@Fioresa

Getting GB boards up would be no problem. I'll do that pending changes to the board.

Regarding Risk, I recall helping helping getting that board set up awhile back, as I tend do for people asking me to help set up a board within a Series of mod.

However, in an instance like this, where I have no familiarity with the game (I don't mess with mobile speedrunning generally and didn't anticipate getting the PC version and running it, though I own it now), I generally will get the base of the board set up, and make sure the point is functioning with the person who requested it as a mod, and then have off full Mod power in those instances. I mostly just make sure the series stays consistent and doesn't have issues, particularly in a franchise like this where the game is like the same name over and over.

Anyways, pretty sure that was back in the days when Otter was more active or whatever. Looks like he's still the full mod. I'm not a mod at all on that version of the game, and so I am not able to actually make any changes on that board are able to mess with moderator powers at this point. And actual site mod would have to make that adjustment.

I imagine if you have a thread over there outlining what you were wanting to do and you could garner some support, you could bring it up to the site mod and point out the only full mod isn't active anymore and no one can implement the changes.

"So what would maybe be more productive is suggesting new ideas for that page"

"If I go to any full-game board on this site, there is now a drop down box for subcategories, to which I can filter this leaderboard. I don't know plausible it is, but it seems to me that adding that same drop down box to list all the subcategories (and ALL), would allow the viewer to filter the whole dang IL leaderboard by subcategory. This would immediately fix the problem of IL runs now showing up on the IL leaderboard."

Is my suggestion.

Just adding on here; if they are already working on something for IL boards, then I am very happy to hear. If something about this is mentioned more elsewhere, I'd love to look at it. In the meantime, figured I'd try to through it out there again, since this has been something that has never been addressed in like 4 years I've been active here, and other updates and changes to the UI have actually made the IL leaderboard functionally worse over time. It's frustrating, particularly when you mod more than one game affected by this stuff.

Thanks to user @Kitaru it was determined the placeholder submission I had placed on the leaderboard from a Japanese YT video was actually performed with autofire. They also provided additional information about the workings of the game and how autofire can be determined from watching visual gameplay.

In Japan, a Max Score is an objective often sought after in this game, is generally a challenged undertaken without regard for time. As such, some records presented to me has shown that autofire is generally allowed for these sorts of runs. Additionally, there is a lack of video available for these runs currently.

For the time being, I've removed the run, and clarified the rules to stipulate that the use of autofire is not allowed.

Hell yea man, very nice.

I've posted about this in the general forms before: https://www.speedrun.com/the_site/thread/duh5d

But, just noticing now yet another game I moderate negatively affected by this issue.

Quick way to visualize this: https://www.speedrun.com/quake_remastered/level/E1M5_Gloom_Keep#Any_Nightmare

See the KB&M and Controller subcategories? No run for KB&M. And there is a run for Controller on this specific level E1M5 for Any% Nightmare category.

Now look at the level leaderboard: https://www.speedrun.com/quake_remastered/levels

See how the run doesn't show up on the level leaderboard? No time shows up for E1M5 Any% Nightmare, despite there being a run.

Why is this? It is because KB&M is set as the default subcategory, and Controller isn't. Why is this? Because to make a variable a subcategory, you must pick a default subcategory. And by doing so, you only allow runs of that default subcategory to appear on the IL leaderboards.

Here's another one; Lemmings is getting some IL interest lately. Go to the whole leaderboard: https://www.speedrun.com/lemmings/levels

Now scroll down to NES 001 (yes, all the way down). No runs on the leaderboard. But go to the level specific leaderboard: https://www.speedrun.com/lemmings/level/NES_001_-_Just_Dig#Any and you see 3 runs.

This is because consoles are treated as a subcategory for Lemmings (instead of 20+ pages for one of the most ported games in history).

In the past; the main leaderboard would list the fastest time, irrespective of what subcategory the IL run is. This wasn't perfect, but it was certainly better than just vanishing all IL runs that don't fall into one specific subcategory.

I don't really see how this hasn't been address.

If I go to any full-game board on this site, there is now a drop down box for subcategories, to which I can filter this leaderboard. I don't know plausible it is, but it seems to me that adding that same drop down box to list all the subcategories (and ALL), would allow the viewer to filter the whole dang IL leaderboard by subcategory. This would immediately fix the problem of IL runs now showing up on the IL leaderboard.

In any case, on Lemmings for example; our IL all level leaderboard page is basically useless as this point. Unless you are going to run the game on one specific console in our case, that it can't be fixed. To workaround this, we'll have create even more levels, and eliminate any subcategories for IL runs.

But obviously, not every page is going to have a workaround at all.

Can this, please, finally get looked at and addressed? Where/who can I forward something like this?

@Fioresa @VyPr

I've been adding the levels to leaderboard by console per request (since it takes a minute to set up).

If y'all would like me to add the GB levels, I'll be happy do so! Might take me a couple days though, so apologies for the delay. Feel free to run the levels so that can be submitted at a later date.

The submissions are fine.

However, looking over the leaderboard, there is a current issue with sr.com affecting how the level leaderboards appear. I'm going to bring it up with site staff to see if I can get the issue resolved.

It's redundant on NES levels.

It's necessary on ports that share all the same levels (DOS/Amiga) to distinguish between them.

This was done to save on levels; so DOS/Amiga would have 120 levels, instead of creating 240 levels for each DOS/Amiga.

Hey y'all. I've been moderating for a hot minute, one might say.

In general, I think this site has always been fantastic, and haven't really had much complaint with the features over the years. It's been slow, but the added functionalities of this site have improved the experience over the last 5 years I've been using it (a few unneeded things, aside).

In any case, there has always been an issue with IL boards. No real improvement to some of this issues due to a limited functionality of the site. I happen to be more aware of it than more, since it affects to board of the first game I set up on the site many a years ago, and have encountered here and there from time and time, moderating games and setting up boards and such.

I guess before I mention the proposal, I should do a simple illustration of the problem. I'll provide some links, with reference numbers, just for ease of reading.

I happen to running Quake Remastered at the moment, and it's perfect illustration.

Here's the IL big board: https://www.speedrun.com/quake_remastered/levels (Ref. 1)

Looks normal. Looks great. But there is an issue.

Looks look an IL together. Here's E1M4, the 4th level: https://www.speedrun.com/quake_remastered/level/E1M4_The_Grisly_Grotto#Any_Easy (Ref. 2).

Once you are there, change the board from "KB+M" to "Console", and then look over the different categories (say, 100% Easy, for example).

As you can see, there are console runs. Now check back to Ref. 1, and you will see the big board has blanks in those spaces for where runs those "Console" runs exist.

It's changed a bit overtime, but currently, the IL leaderboard will only show runs from the Sub-category marked "Default", as of this moment. I've also seen it at times be the case where it will merge all of the subcategories, and show the best time amongst all of them. It's recently changed to the "Default"-only mode... for lack of better words.

This issue will actually pop-up on any current leaderboard with IL's and sub-categories; so feel free to check, if you like.

So, I have a proposal I think might be possible that could rectify this situation (and may even be to used in the IL page for runners in some way). Before I get to deep into it I just want to say, I'm not, like, a software developer or nothing, so I can no idea as to the feasibility of any of this. If it's not really possible, than it is what it is. But it would be cool to know that too, since I've been staring at the issue for years now.

Pull up Ref. 1 again. Imagine for a moment, in the top right-hand part of the IL leaderboard, there exist a drop down box. Even a drop down box for each subcategory for a game and "All". That way, the entire leaderboard can more or less be filtered by this subcategories. Default those bad boys to "All".

In our Quake Remastered example, all the "Console" runs will appear on the leaderboard. It also gives the "Console" runners the ability to filter the board to see who has the best times based solely on "Console", a cool feature for those runners. Likewise, it can be set to only show "KB+M" runs. In this game instance, those runners would expectedly always be faster, assuming there was a run submitted. But that may not always be the case for all the games, so the additionally functionality show improve all game boards.

Now, as I mentioned, I don't know the backend of sr.com or anything, so not sure if that's plausible, but I'm thinking that would really help moderators solve the occasional weird issues that arrive on IL boards with subcategories. If there is a better place to submit something like this, let me know.

In any case, appreciate the work on the board, even the misses. Apologies for any typos; too lazy to proofread. Thanks for reading.

EDIT: Sorry, title mentions a couple proposals; but realized the 2nd wouldn't work as I was typing it out. It was least preferable anyways. Cheers.

Speaking of numbers, this should be post #1998. Next two are pretty coveted positions, I imagine. Who will get them?

Name all of them.

Oh, no I see it. I like it. Subtle. I'm sure it works better with certain colors over others. I see them on the likes on your post, some are easier to make out.

Just curious, but am I suppose to add anything at all happening to my name? Cause I dont' see anything, and my name is long as hell.