United StatesThe fact of the matter is, if something is unlocked by "beating the game", and you don't unlock it by performing an early credit warp, then you haven't beaten the game, plain and simple. If the game doesn't think you've beaten the game, then you haven't beaten the game. A reward is confirmation. It's basically the developer's way of congratulating you for beating their game. It's not the player(s) that determine what beating the game means. (Not directed at anyone in particular ->) Oh, you say it is up to the player? Alright, then please record a video of you stating to the camera that you want to see the credits roll after the first mission AND unlock the tank, and then proceed to start a new game and show these things happening.
In III's case, it's the spawning of the tank at Phil's, correct? If the early credit warp doesn't unlock this reward, then you haven't beaten the game. All you've done is perform some glitch which means nothing. If there exists a glitch that has nothing to do with the credits, but does unlock the tank, would performing this glitch equal beating the game? Does stealing the first place trophy off of a table placed at the finish line of a marathon, mean you won the race?
I feel it's a combination of the credits/reward. If a glitch literally warps you to the end of the game and you unlock the reward for "beating the game", then that should be sufficient for Any%. Otherwise, it's all just fancy tricks which mean nothing.
I think the best way to approach this is to examine the state of the game after some action occurs. In the above LCS example, nothing has changed in terms of what the player can do with the remaining main story line, after the credits have rolled. Imagine if the same exact thing happened in this video, but the only difference was the player losses control and the final cutscene, of the final story line mission, plays, and then transitions into the credits, just as it would if you beat the final mission. Maybe only the scrolling credits get triggered along with the usual background scene for which they roll on top of. It makes no difference if you've lost control of your character's movement and actions while this is going on, that's not the point. You may even get teleported to the location which you end up in after these things play, but, again, this makes no difference if nothing has changed regarding the rest of the game after any of this has happened. What about possible outcomes?
Maybe all missions have unlocked and you can go straight to the final mission, just like the effect produced by whatever the actions are in Chinatown Wars. This is obviously acceptable.
What if all of the missions disappeared from the map and were permanently removed after rolling the final cutscene/credits or just the credits? Does it matter if the game thinks you've beaten every mission, possibly determined by checking the stats? You're left with no missions, so have you beaten the game? What if this same outcome could be created by performing some sort of glitch, unrelated to an early credit trigger?
Imagine someone claiming they've beaten the game simply because they've glitched the game and can no longer see or start missions. If the reason the missions are gone is because the game has been glitched and all missions have been completed, verified in the stats menu, then this should be acceptable for Any%, with the timer stopped the moment the glitch is executed. This is regardless of the glitch involving an early credits trigger. Now imagine the same thing, only this time the stats menu doesn't show that the missing missions have been completed. Claiming this should be acceptable for Any% is laughable.
Lastly, what about "the final storyline mission"? I feel if you seemingly "skip" this mission, but its disappearance is actually due to it being completed, verified in the stats, then you've finished Any%, even if you never see the final cutscene or credits. If the game doesn't recognize that it's been completed, then you've just performed a glitch which has screwed you out of completing Any%.
It should be working, as it even works for me when I'm signed out of my G account. Can anyone else not access the link?
When I've referred to "credits", I was thinking of the final cutscene/credits combined, if that clarifies my thinking a bit. I guess I've always viewed the "credits" of a game as being a final cutscene that transitions into the scrolling credits.
Shouldn't it not matter if a way is found to trigger the credits in any way other than during 'The Exchange'? The timer has always been stopped upon the first frame of fade-out/control loss preceding the credits, while on "The Exchange", not the first frame of the video file that is the credits. That, to me, is enough to warrant a "credit skip" as worthless, concerning the Any% speedrun, unless a skip was found which is executed during 'The Exchange' and triggers an identical fade-out/loss of control, which precedes the credits.
Let's say that tomorrow someone found a way to completely negate the need to shoot down the helicopter, even though you still could, and all you had to do was run to Maria after spawning her in. Would skipping shooting the helicopter not be allowed because the end of Any% is defined as "...ends as soon as you lose control as the final cutscene starts after shooting down the helicopter on 'The Exchange'." I'm positive absolutely no one would feel this skip shouldn't be allowed, so that begs the question of what the true definition of the end of Any% is.
Personally, I feel, and this is for any GTA, the end of Any% is loss of control/fade out which precedes the credits, while on the final mission of the main story line.
Also, can someone explain what triggering the credits during an earlier mission does to the game/remaining missions/etc?
I've updated the information after doing some deathwarp testing.
After unlocking 'Ransom' (where you take a photo of Gracie):
If Ray ISN'T dead:
The next step to unlocking 'She's a Keeper' is to get Ray's call after finishing 'Ransom'. Ray's call comes in after an hour and a half (1h 30m) of in-game time passes. His call begins with, "Nicky, I hear you and the Irish have got your hands on Ancelotti's daughter."
After getting Ray's call, you need to wait an hour and twenty minutes (1h 20m) of in-game time for Packie to send you the text message which unlocks 'She's a Keeper'. Be aware that this text message will NOT come in during Packie's unavailability hours (06:00-15:00).
If Ray IS dead (or will be dead before getting his above call):
After you've taken the photo and walked out of the room, you need to wait two hours and fifteen minutes (2h 15m) of in-game time for Packie to send you the text message which unlocks 'She's a Keeper'. Be aware that this text message will NOT come in during Packie's unavailability hours (06:00-15:00).
Just wanted to bother someone. I need to test if deathwarping between (22:00-00:00), going back in time to some point between (08:00-10:00), will work in the same way as moving forward to those times in the next day, to get these calls.
Date Fail usefulness and stages of testing:
It's Your Call (up to) Roman's Sorrow (including Brucie) - date fail not useful Escuela of the Asleep - game crashes no matter how far along you are while trailing, both inside and outside of your vehicle (only tested on 1.4) Street Sweeper - works, but not useful Luck of the Irish - fails the mission, not useful anyway Blow Your Cover - crashes the game at multiple spots Out of the Closet - not useful Puerto Rican Connection- will work when the train spawns, but you need to follow the train to its final stop for mission pass (not useful) Deconstruction for Beginners - kills Playboy (not useful anyway) Photo Shoot - not useful, mission is very short The Snow Storm - doesn't speed up the mission, not useful Call and Collect - does nothing if you date fail before reaching the marker, clearly not useful as the rest of the mission is too short Final Interview pt. 1 - not useful Have a Heart - not useful Wrong is Right - doesn't fail or pass the mission, not useful Portrait of a Killer - not worth it, not useful Dust Off - destroys the heli, not useful Interview - not useful Harboring a Grudge - tested with the trainer w/ Kate, left the mission in a state which couldn't be completed, not worth going for Waste Not Want Knots - not useful, makes the guys with you just wander around Three Leaf Clover - tested at both the moment the shootout begins and after the cutscene before going into the subway (crashed and killed Derrick), could also test once down in the subway, but it's likely not going to work ¤Paper Trail - works, but no known way to get the call after starting a date (could test with the mutliple date strat) Smackdown - not useful, can't use the police computer while on a date and on the mission (mission is too fast anyway) Holland Nights - short mission, wouldn't be useful Lure - short mission, wouldn't be useful Hostile Negotiation - fails mission or crashes game, I forget, but I've tested this A Long Way to Fall - Could test again, but I'm pretty sure it failed the mission (likely wouldn't be faster anyway) ¤Actions Speak Louder Than Words - always crashed or failed the mission, did date fail earlier on in the trailing process, could try again at a later point while still trailing ¤I Need Your Clothes, Boots, Motorcycle - pretty sure it failed the mission, will test again (likely not useful) Babysitting - doesn't work before reaching the boat, fails the mission once the first enemy spawns, not worth going for at any other point ¤Tunnel of Death - will test again with a new strat (but it will probably fail the mission like the other tests) Blood Brothers - not useful Taking in the Trash - fails the mission Undertaker - not useful Meltdown - fails the mission (tested only on 1.4) Museum Piece - not useful No Way...Subway - works, but isn't worth going for as it's nearly identical in time to the normal way (and you'd be dealing with major RNG just to maybe save a few seconds) Weekend At Florian's - fails or crashes the mission, wouldn't be faster anyway I'll Take Her... - not useful ...I'll Take Her - not useful Late Checkout - crashed the game every time (and it's a pretty fast mission so would be useful anyway) Truck Hustle - Destroys the H(eroin) Pegorino's Pride - crashes the game at multiple points during the mission, not worth testing any further Hating the Haters - not useful Payback - mission is too short for it to be useful Catch the Wave - failed the mission once you shoot at the warehouse after the guys start shooting Flatline - works, but the mission is too short for it to be useful Trespass - removes Chubby Charlie, but still requires that you reach the helicopter trigger and destroy the helicopter (so it's useless on this mission) To Live and Die in Alderney - crashes the game, even at the point where you you get out of the cars, so not useful as you need to shoot the cops to continue ¤Entourage - will test again Union Drive - too short of a mission to be useful Dining Out - Probably works after triggering the enemies, but at that point it's not worth it as you can be done in under 30 seconds. Doesn't do anything if done as soon as you exit the cutscene. Liquidize the Assets - mission is too short to be useful Pest Control - too short to be useful She's A Keeper - too short to be useful ¤Buoys Ahoy Diamonds are...Friend - failed the mission if done before the shootout, if done at the shootout, it will crash the game once you reach the point where the three cars pull up A Dish Served Cold - likely not possible to do Mr. & Mrs. Bellic - not useful ¤Out of Commission- tested in multiple places using the trainer, never did anything of use, will try again
Going for the date fail, mission passed glitch during No Way on the Subway IS NOT worth it. In my latest run, I split at the end of Babysitting, ran for a few seconds and found a cab, went to Ray and waited 15 seconds for a text, then started NWotS. The split ended up being 3:04.
In this video, you'll see the glitch done as if it's during a run. Execution was nearly perfect, aside from the cab driver getting out and wasting ~5 seconds. The end split should have been at 2:51 (2:46 w/o the cab driver) and this was without a ~15 second wait for a call or text. Even if Kate was waiting at her house, I still would have had to wait on the marker and/or gotten out of the police car and into a car to do the faster setup, which 'might' have saved 1-2 seconds at most.
Not worth going for.
I'm pretty sure this is how it works and have yet to see an outcome which goes against that which is below:
-Kate seems to always answer the phone and proceed to accept your request to get together when you call her for the first time -After the first time, she seems to follow her sleep schedule which is 00:00-08:00 AM (unavailable between these times) -If there's a mission marker at the McReary household, Kate will always be waiting at work -If there's no mission marker at their household, she will want picked up there
We need to figure out how to determine if Kate will be wanting picked up at work or at her home before making the call. I've called her at the same time, same day multiple times and sometimes she's at work, sometimes she's not. For those of you who don't know, if she's at work, she isn't unavailable, she just will be needing picked up there.
The 'No Way on the Subway" date pass would definitely be worth it if you knew she would be wanting picked up at home, as it's just around the corner from the police station and you could perform the faster date fail setup (shown in a video, two posts above this one) and easily save 15-25 seconds as long as you can quickly get a cab.
Maybe the trainer was causing inconsistencies with where she wanted picked up and when she's available, as I was using it to change the time.
No Way On The Subway:
Too early: Too early: Too early: The moment you can pass:
I've so far found this can be done in three places; at the start of a date, which is the beginning of the "date glitch", and during the missions "Smackdown" and "Pest Control".
-I don't think it's possible to shoot your weapon while the menu is up -After passing a mission, the end of mission call may not come in until you reach a certain spot on the map if the police menu is still up (Smackdown) -Smackdown's end of mission call always came in when I hit the closest intersection to the NW of Packie's house and at this point I was able to use the phone (make and receive calls) -You're able to receive and make mission triggering calls while the police menu is up after setting up the glitch with a mission or any other unknown way -If you're not already on the vigilante menu when one of these calls is triggered, you won't be able to access the vigilante missions -Friends don't seem to want to get into your police vehicle while the menu is on screen -I haven't found a mission marker that will trigger while the menu is on screen -The police vehicle is indestructible while the menu is on the screen -Niko is not invincible and will take damage as usual, though it sometimes seems like you can take more than you should be able to
Triggering the glitch on Smackdown: Search for Bucky out front of the Burger Shot > move to the marker and cancel the auto-call with E > when the marker triggers, press E again to bring up the menu > skip the cutscene with Enter
Triggering the glitch on Pest Control: Sit next to the curb, in the crosswalk > receive Pegorino's call > answer and end the call > quickly bring up the police computer > skip the cutscene
Indestructible vehicle, a use of this glitch (as well as its set-up during Pest Control):
When you pick up this SMG, you have 60 bullets. As you can see in the video, you can kill him in under 60 shots.
...but in the end you'd be taking a big risk just to save a few seconds. Getting this SMG after finishing Jamaican Heat (behind the bar) takes about 8 seconds. It's true you'd save about 6 seconds if you already have this gun during "Do You Have Protection" (because of the animation at the gun shop) and another 5 during Ivan. You're left with a few seconds of time save and even then it might be even less as I haven't precisely timed how long it takes to get to the SMG and back to a vehicle after Jamaican Heat.
All times are in seconds. Consider every one +/- 0.05 seconds. I recorded myself running between two ground markings and did the timing in a video editor.
Any area where you're able to fully sprint (outdoor areas, some indoor areas)- Fists: 3.25 Pistols: 3.25 Shotguns: 3.63 SMGs: 3.25 Rifles: 3.70 RPG: 3.25 Thrown: 3.25
Any area which restricts you to a slow run (most indoor areas)- Fists- Run (no aiming): 3.85 Jumping: 4.07
Pistols- Run (no aiming): 3.90 Run+Aim (from a standstill -> aim -> hold shift -> begin moving): 5.52 Run+Aim (from a run -> aim -> continue moving): 4.57 Jumping: 4.07
Shotguns- Run (no aiming): 4.85 Run+Aim (from a standstill -> aim -> hold shift -> begin moving): 5.50 Run+Aim (from a run -> aim -> continue moving): 5.50 Jumping: 3.93
SMGs- Run (no aiming): 3.88 Run+Aim (from a standstill -> aim -> hold shift -> begin moving): 5.53 Run+Aim (from a run -> aim -> continue moving): 4.55 Jumping: 4.10
Rifles- Run (no aiming): 4.80 Run+Aim (from a standstill -> aim -> hold shift -> begin moving): 5.50 Run+Aim (from a run -> aim -> continue moving): 5.50 Jumping: 3.98
RPG- Run (no aiming): 3.90 Run+Aim (from a standstill -> aim -> hold shift -> begin moving): 3.85 Run+Aim (from a run -> aim -> continue moving): 3.90 Jumping: 3.85
Thrown- Run (no aiming): 3.87 Jumping: 4.07
Stairs (going up)- RPG (not aiming): 1.50 RPG (jumping): 1.50 RPG (aiming): 1.42 SMG (not aiming): 2.25 SMG (jumping): 1.45 SMG (aiming): 2.00
Stairs (going down)- RPG (not aiming): 1.38 RPG (jumping): 1.42 RPG (aiming): 1.55 SMG (not aiming): 2.12 SMG (jumping): 1.58 SMG (aiming): 2.78
