Illinois, USAA couple more unofficial runs, which were previously accepted because I was being dumb and forgot the Korean version of Chronicles+ uses an unofficial patch. >_>; These were all done by "annes" on Normal difficulty, with their best time managing to beat TheBarinade's record in that category. I referred them to the Japanese version of Chronicles (via DLsite), so maybe we'll see TheBarinade's record beaten in an official capacity soon.
Anyway, here are the rejected runs from annes, with their current PB listed first:
Just wanted to make a small clarification regarding how I've been timing the individual chapter runs. I've started time when the runner selects "Begin" or "Continue" (when the game prompts you to skip previous chapters), whichever selection gets the chapter to start.
The purpose for the change is so that runners don't lose time unnecessarily before the chapter technically even starts. This change won't apply to anyone doing an all chapters run, as there shouldn't be a reason for it to be an issue there. This change is now reflected in the rules for the individual chapters, with the exception of chapter 1 (since there naturally won't be a chapter skip prompt there), and a couple of the runs have been re-timed accordingly.
I was informed recently that the very first release of the game is probably susceptible to crashing, which was probably patched pretty quickly after the game's release. So, to hopefully decrease the likelihood of any performance issues, I decided to find the last available build that had the Tab bug present, which appears to be the 2nd update on September 16, 2015. For reference, this is what you'd need to type in the Steam console:
[quote] download_depot 251150 251151 5152400201548245558[/quote]
Unfortunately, certain quality of life features such as skipping the S-Craft animations and Turbo Mode had yet to be implemented. But this should be the most stable build of the game with the Tab bug intact (in theory, at least).
This really should've been done sooner, but I think it's best that we go with timing starts when selecting difficulty, and ends when the last text box begins to shrink.
The rules have been edited to reflect this, and some of the runs were re-timed to properly reflect this, but nobody changed ranks because of it.
Looks like Meball was active on Twitter (@Meball) about a month ago, so maybe you can contact him / her through that.
That said, given the current mods' recent inactivity, perhaps someone else should be added as well. If nothing else, I wouldn't mind helping verify for FC, SC, and the 3rd, though I'm admittedly not super skilled at the games.
I know this is an old thread, but I recently discovered how to get older versions of the game via Steam. The following guide explains how to do this in general:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/611h5e/guide_how_to_download_older_versions_of_a_game_on/
I don't remember exactly when the Tab bug was patched out of FC (several months before SC was localized, and also before GOG Galaxy was a thing, meaning that using GOG to revert to a version with the bug intact is impossible). Still, for simplicity, this is what needs to be typed into the Steam console to download the very first localized PC version, with the bug intact:
[quote]download_depot 251150 251151 9152980078943975861[/quote]
As to where Steam downloaded it, I found the files here:
[quote]E:\Steam\steamapps\content\app_251150[/quote]
To avoid Steam auto-updating, you'll need to change the game's update settings to only when you boot up the game. You'll also need to play the game in offline mode, otherwise it'll revert to the latest version of the game.
Any further opinions on this? At some point (not sure when), I intend to do a run of Eternal, on at least the Easy difficulty, so we'll need to come up with a solution sooner or later.
Hmm, I suppose we could do that. After all, the current run would have a slight edge over true Hard difficulty runs (well, I say that, but there's also stuff like Wings costing a lot more to take into consideration - 200 vs 2000). Take Vagullion again. The current Eternal run takes 5 damage per hit when properly equipped. I don't know what it is for a proper Hard run, but for Normal in newer versions, the damage taken is 8. So, despite needing to deal more damage, maybe the fact that you take less could be considered a good counter-balance?
Ugh, these version differences really suck sometimes. :(
On second thought, what do people think about putting the Eternal runs into a separate category? The reason I bring this up is because I recently noted that the above information concerning the difficulties isn't entirely correct.
For example, take Jenocres on Eternal's Easy difficulty compared to other versions' Normal. In Eternal (on Easy), if facing him under-leveled, you'd only have to deal 34 hits; in newer versions (on Normal), you'd have to do 50. In addition, the damage he deals to you is lower in Eternal; 3 compared to 6 (armor or lack thereof doesn't matter for this fight).
Now, facing him at the "correct" level / gear, you'd do the same amount of hits (10), but the level differs. Eternal could do it at level 3, and newer versions at 4. Granted, Eternal gives lower EXP from the Minea Plains and Mountain Path enemies, and also nothing from saving Luta, but still.
Vagullion's another one that stands out. I can't remember for certain, but I believe he takes 11 hits in Eternal (Easy) compared to 13 in newer versions (Normal). Pretty certain the damage output in that fight is a bit lower in Eternal as well.
So, let's say I do a run of Eternal on Easy, and submit it here. The way we currently have it set up, it'd get posted under Normal difficulty. However, I'd almost certainly still do Jenocres under-leveled in this instance, and so my run would have an unfair advantage over someone playing Normal on a newer version. Even if they also did Jenocres under-leveled, they'd still be behind because I'd do 16 hits less than what they'd have to do (plus, I'd also have a higher survivability rate, not taking as much damage).
Granted, things like text speed would also play a factor in timing, and the above pertains to Eternal's Easy vs. newer versions' Normal, but still. About Eternal's Normal vs. other versions' Hard, I believe the chief factor is damage received, and not the amount of damage a boss takes, though I could be wrong about that.
Thoughts?
Thank you for that. I'll probably return to attempts sometime in the near future, so hopefully that'll help a little bit.
I went ahead and added the category for both games, so feel free to submit your times!
In-game times should be just fine for this category, unless the timer runs incorrectly or something (which I don't think is an issue, though it will pause between a boss being defeated and transitioning to the next one).
The only thing to note is that the in-game timer only has 2 digits for the milliseconds, but the submission form will ask for 3. For now, just entering 2 digits or simply adding a 0 afterwards should be fine (example = my Ys I run is a 3:03.89, but the leaderboards here show it as a 3:03.890).
Thanks for that update; I had just been working on chapter 5 runs, so I'll stop timing once the credits appear.
Anyway, I've tried to get a hold of Cornelu for his thoughts, hopefully he replies.
Fine by me. Going by last input would also create an awkward scenario for someone brave enough to do a full game run in one sitting. For a standalone episode 1 , the pie would be the fastest option in that scenario, but the dagger would be faster for starting episode 2 a little earlier (my notes say both the pie and the bird bombs are slower cutscene-wise by ~25 seconds).
They might just have Discord running all the time or something, and haven't actually seen the messages yet or something. But yes, they are the ones that would write the rules. The only snag is that, as of right now, runs of this game don't require verification (meaning runs are insta-accepted, without review), but that can also be altered by them.
I don't have Discord at the moment, but I will once I upgrade to something newer, hopefully around thisThanksgiving or Christmas (this computer is kinda old and I don't want to bog it down too much). But yeah, getting the input of other community members (even if they don't plan to run this game) would be helpful.
I know there's not many runners for this game so far (not that I really expect this to change =p), but I think it'd be a good idea to get a solid timing system in place, seeing as how I timed things a bit differently, which caused some confusion recently.
So, both of the other runners for this game timed their runs to the last input, but I timed my runs up to when the chapter status screen appears (my initial plan for chapter 5 and the epilogue is to stop timing at the credits, since those chapters don't have such screens, if I remember right).
Normally I agree with last input timing, but the reason I timed my run as I did is because of chapter 1 having unskippable dialogue all throughout, hence there's more importance to what choices / dialogue options you choose. So it made more sense to me to include the final scenes in the timing as well (I will say that if final input is what we go with, then using the pie instead of the dagger at the end of chapter 1 is the fastest option). Stopping at the chapter status screen is also easy to determine, whereas final input could be a bit more ambiguous, especially since later chapters will end on a "press button to skip" input which could be harder to determine upon video review.
I'm OK with whatever the community ends up deciding, and ultimately, the different methods would really only affect chapter 1 (since the pie is fastest input-wise, but has a slower cutscene than the dagger, with no way to skip the cutscene). Still, I'd like to hear other opinions on this matter as well.
I'm thinking of adding a Time Attack category for both Ys I & II, but before I do, I'm curious if (1) there's enough interest. And (2) if we should make it full runs only, or make sub-categories for each of the boss times. The reason I wonder about point 2 is because unlike other Ys games, you can't individually select to try a certain boss; you either go through the whole loop, or you don't. But, the games still track your overall best times for each boss, but that may only be if you save and quit the times afterward (not sure of that).
As a visual reference to the categories I'm talking about, here's links to each:
Completing the story mode just via Time Attack (Easy difficulty only, as that's what traditional TA damage values reflect):
Completing the game via the boss loop, but selecting "New Game" + a difficulty:
Abusing the bugs, but reaching Darm normally (this video doesn't actually reach Darm normally, but up until that point, it's an accurate representation of my proposal - it's an old "failed" speedrun demonstration before I knew of the severity of the failure to return to the title screen at Darm, and I don't really feel like messing with trying to record a properly updated run right now):
