No, that just sounds stupid. If a solo run is really good and nobody interfered majorly, it's still solo.

You know Barks, OBS doesn't have to stream. I just clicked the record button and off I went. Besides, it consumes less data than I would be consuming had I streamed it (Data cap, yeah I know it sucks).

I'm sorry for being so hostile, I have IRL anger issues so it's hard for me to control myself in some cases. I'm really concerned about livestreams and co-op in these types of runs because like I stated, practically the only thing left when you get help from friends is button pressing which considering that you don't have to time it like it's Guitar Hero or Stepmania you might as well be TASing. TTR is the one game I've really wanted to speedrun (I joined this site just for it. I wanted to speedrun Goldeneye or Mario 64 but then I remembered that at this point those runs are so optimized that I'd be lucky to come anywhere close to a WR) so I get really scared and angry at the same time when a guy suddenly starts getting help during a solo run, it just doesn't feel right to me.

I can prove that my run was not livestreamed, the last time my channel was live was on Friday just for fun. My run was on Saturday starting at 12PM sharp. Perhaps we make a channel repository so we can check if so and so was live?

Also Megasnoop, I think livestreaming does help more than hurt as shown by Gag Strategist co-oping his way to a "WR".

The whole problem to begin with is that streaming speedruns inevitably become co-op if they're even somewhat notable. I remember Coach Z meetups back in the day where there would literally be tidal waves of toons trying to fight tooth and nail to enter a cog fight or get into a building with him. You can't tell me that automatically four stacked fights aren't an advantage because you wouldn't have to use gags because the other three could just annihilate any cog in TTC easily.

I'm not going to lie, some good invasions spawned in my run and thus I took advantage of them. We're moving the goalposts though. It's just ridiculous saying that streaming doesn't give you an advantage. I assure you (And when I streamed my main toon before named Eddie, this did happen) that when you stream Toontown, at least one guy will find you and start following you if you name the district (Which guys like Megasnoop conveniently do). I'd get free VP runs, free unites, free help in fights. You name it. A whole herd of people would show up. I just don't consider it a legitimate solo run when you're using your fame for help.

Oh right, I apologize for my mistake. It just seems like you and Megasnoop are the only guys that run that stuff

"No friending" runs are literally impossible. One of the very first tasks is making a friend.

First off, thank you Hyden for calling out a guy that is trying to abuse categories for fame. At least the mods will now know who's lying when they submit the speedrun. I was the guy that "called you out" per say and I'm very happy that you're returning the favor with this guy. I was mad that such a run was allowed in solo and thank you oh so much for not allowing another guy to steal it. I've been practicing every day and I'd be livid if some guy like that could steal it all away by disobeying the rules/category.

@Barks1, the problem with the loopholes in the rules is that quite frankly Toontown isn't a very skill based run to begin with. It's all about knowing the route (Which is easy enough to pound into your head) and a lot of luck with invasions. If I could just have a toon standing next to me summoning crap, removing the searching and luck factor, what else would there be? Buttons? You might as well TAS the run at that point because anybody can do that.

Yeah, like I said that's another form of cheating we have to be keeping an eye out for. If some guy chooses only specific cog (As in individual, not suits or anything) and cogs suddenly get summoned or invasions pop up EVERY SINGLE TIME it's either the best luck I've ever seen in my life or they have a guy hiding in the alleyway summoning stuff.

I think we're all in agreement here. Streaming should be offlimits for solo runs. At first I streamed a practice run for laughs but that run wasn't the run I uploaded (I quit 25 minutes into my practice run because it crashed). I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't call it out because of the whole stuff I did to call out that "solo WR"

I mean, during my run some toon brought her Doodle into the fight. It didn't heal me (I was at full laff) but I didn't ask for it. Where do we set the boundaries here? Although a guy just randomly showing up to a specific toon to unite heal/gag up/etc seems extremely fishy.

Yeah, that sounds like another good rule to it. Only Welcome Valley. I'd try to do the run myself but it's the end of the weekend so I won't be able to stay up for it (Because I'm guesstimating that this run will be at least a good six hours so that's six hours of no eating, drinking, leaving your chair, etc) today and if there's no category for it, what's the point? My time would be a laughing stock if it was sent to solo because I'd be forced to take zero shortcuts on it. Albeit it's more of an endurance run than a "speed" run because of a lack of speed but endurance is a big aspect of speedrunning long games, not to mention that there are games MUCH longer to speedrun (See: Pokemon Stadium with only one guy managing to do a full run of the game clocking in at 20 hours) so I do see how Toontown should be the exception.

I think Toontown Offline has different content to the original TTO/TTR so it wouldn't be a true TTR speedrun. Not to mention (Though it could just be because I'm new to the site) I don't know how to add games

Thank you! I'm glad my voice was heard with this and didn't just fall into the endless void of other voices.

As Zig brought up the concept of though, I'd be extremely interested in an ultra hardcore solo speedrun (No interference and you must leave the fight if there is some, no invasions, no cog summons, no speedchat, have to immediately unfriend the guy you friended for the task, not being able to stream it, etc). Sure, it's technically completing TTC in the slowest way possible that isn't outright ubering but still. Part of speedrunning is endurance (Not being able to eat, drink, leave your chair, use the bathroom, etc for hours on end) and there's runs much longer than this (I'm willing to bet that an ultra hardcore TTC would be about 6-8 hours) so I don't see why it should be the exception. The market is there with me and zig considering that he invented it so it'd be nice to have leaderboards for it.

You're right, technically speaking he didn't break any specific rules but I still think there's a discussion to be had about this run considering that it cuts the total off time the last run by over an hour by having that extra hand

Your ideas for a completely hardcore solo run sound extremely appealing to me. Perhaps no Speedchat or Speedchat Plus so nobody can be aware of your intentions and help out. It'll just be you on a throwaway toon going at it with all of the toontasks. The thing for categories according to the mods seems to be "If there's a market we'll add it", well you're looking at your market. I might not be the best Toontown player there is, I know there's a lot of people on here who click faster than I do but I'm willing to try a hardcore solo run. No invasions, no toons walking into your battle/you walking into a toon's battle, no speedchat, no interactions to the outside world besides the make a friend task (Which perhaps you should be forced to auto remove the guy you friend). I'm brand spanking new to this speedrunning thing (The only game I've played with the intentions to speedrun legitimately because I like experimenting with Gameshark and the like is Path of Exile) but if you need runners to justify a category's existence, you have one for a hardcore solo run.

Exactly Zig, when you remove literally everything required in this run besides pushing buttons what's the point? The only thing that would be left is button presses which at that point you might as well just TAS it. If I can grind my other toon to max and have him wandering with my "solo" run spawning specific cogs he needs for tasks, then there's no point. It's completely unfair, I was training myself to get at least a sub four hour time and at this point if I can just spawn in crap, I see no point in continuing with a run that told me not to do that. Toontown was the one game I wanted to speedrun so if people won't play fair then I don't see the point in trying to go for the WR, after all, you can't win as a solo toon when there's a guy following so and so every step of the way so he doesn't have to use gags or search for cogs.

A completely hardcore solo run sounds fun which is what I thought this was about, no help whatsoever. Again, I think TTR speedruns should NOT be allowed to stream because it allows for interference. Another form of cheating we should be on the lookout for is with invasions. Like if a specific cog quest pops up and all of the sudden an invasion shows up in that district for it, it could just be extreme luck. Though, when it happens for every single task I think it's more than a coincidence because of how extremely low the odds would be to get each and every last specific cog task as an invasion in some district.

It is very clear in the video that the runner is controlling both toons. No, no way. There's two voices in the video each sounding distinctly different. A male and a female. You can't just tell me he'd/she'd go through the effort of impersonating another gender's voice.

It's technically not against the rules but I think it should be. If extra toons can just be thrown into the mix to fight/spawn cogs and invasions then there's no point to speedrunning it. It completely removes the searching factor and luck factor and the only thing left in this speedrun after that is pushing buttons to accept tasks which can be TAS'd/macro'd very easily I might add.

Personally, I could just be too radical on this but I think that TTR speedruns should not be allowed to be streamed period. It causes interference by the fans because it's an MMO and people shouldn't be allowed to be THIS blatant with helping the toon out. You can't tell me that a random would be connected on a microphone chat and would follow that specific toon for TWO HOURS. It's so improbable to the point where it's certain that he's not a random thanks to the microphone (As far as I know, there's no voice chat in TTR).

I just don't believe that this is a legitimate solo run, he had help (Regardless of if he played both toons or not, it still gave him an advantage over solo players like how the run was meant to be) from other toons that rules this run illegitimate at least in this category. It'd be fine if it was a co-op even if he controlled both toons because it's a co-op between two toons.

It's not just that, there's a microphone chat that starts before the run even technically begins (As far as I know, the run "begins" during the loading screen of Create-A-Toon) so it's not like he's just some random guy that followed her for the entire run (How convenient, following a random toon for two hours straight and he's supposed to be a "random". I call foul). They obviously know eachother.

Another thing that concerns me is how did this somehow make it through. Did nobody even watch a minute of footage? Did they just look at the time and go "seems legit"? What's going on? There's no way this could be considered a proper fair competitive playing field.

As you can see in this run, there is a helper as shown by the two voices making it a cooperative run. This is not a solo run by any means whatsoever, remove him from the solo and put it in co-op. I am livid that this kind of cheating is allowed and I will happily pack my bags if this sort of corruption in rankings is allowed

I was skeptical because there's no way anybody could make such a difference in a so called "solo" run (Hour and thirty minutes? No way) and I was right. This isn't a solo run, never was. How did this make it through?

I meant #3 as like somebody you don't even have on your list. There's no way to kick people from cog fights so would it still count?

Hello! I'm intrigued by the concept of Toontown speedruns so I have to ask a few questions before I really start investing time into this

1: Do loading times count towards your final time? It seems unfair if it does because you're not even touching the keyboard

2: Would it be considered cheating to use http://toonhq.org/invasions/ to check for invasions for specific cog tasks?

3: If somebody were to join in on a cog fight without the runner asking him to, would it still count as a solo run?