United StatesThere are only 3 sensible paths forward:
-Keep the leaderboards merged (ranked together) and allow platform filtering. -Create separate platform subcategories for every single shared IL and every single full game category. -Make a new separate leaderboard.
The last two options achieve the same effective goal, but have different levels of visibility and clutter. If you want your game to be independent, your leaderboards to be clean, and for your fastest times to be showcased the most, then you should split from Doom N64. Otherwise, you will always be obscured by the N64 times, as N64 will always be the default category presented/selected on this leaderboard.
Punchy, I'm not sure why you are being hostile when I openly admitted that I have no control over this, that I do not seek to force my will upon you all, and that I am probably being selfish. You are projecting remarkably hard with your word salad description of my post based on my (thankfully) limited knowledge of you. I am annoyed nobody runs this game and now everyone runs the wrong version. It's pretty simple. That said, I really have no right telling people what they should play or care about. I can only state what I wish to happen and leave it at that.
If you all believe the new Doom 64 is so wildly different from the original as to warrant a new leaderboard, you should request it to be made. There is not much more for me to say about it. I have no business being involved in the management of what you all believe is a completely different game, just as I have no business moderating a Final Fantasy game or a Mario game.
Best wishes to everyone, and feel free to ask me any questions about the speedrun if you need help. I have a substantial amount of practical knowledge from running this game for as long as I have.
Honestly, this remake has been an extremely tough thing to figure out how to address. I'm just one guy who speedruns a game that almost nobody else has speedran forever. Now everyone wants to play it, but on the substantially worse version. Admittedly, I was just hoping that nobody would care to speedrun the new port and that this would just blow over, but obviously that hasn't happened. That said, I have spent the better part of almost 8 years in the speedrunning community thinking about how best to make communities grow and prosper, how to get people attracted to playing the games I run, and how to best balance the diverse wishes of those who participate.
I am torn between my selfish desire to funnel new players towards the game I run, and my otherwise accommodating nature. Separating the two games splits the community up, which is one of my primary concerns. One may argue that maximally accommodating everyone who wants to play the 2020 port may open the door for someone to play the N64 version down the road. Maybe. But in my experience, every schism in a speedrunning community that is ever made almost never gets undone, and more importantly, it sets a precedent to allow further alterations or splits. Often, a slippery slope occurs when something innocuous at first gets used as justification for what ends up being community killing decisions years down the road.
To me, allowing a speedrunning community to be at the mercy of future profiteers who wish to remake every game ever made for a quick dollar is an insult to the hard work and effort that all the runners of the original game exerted prior to any re-release happening. What if the new Doom 64 release was actually a faster speedrun than N64? The extremely sad but all too common truth is that almost everyone would embrace it as "wow its faster!!!!" and be gleefully willing to obsolete years of history in that game. Perhaps the original and new port would have still been split into separate leaderboards, but an overwhelming majority of people would be playing the new version.
Luckily, this port is much slower and is pretty much a worse speedrun in every conceivable way. There are no glitches, your movement speed is dramatically slower, and you have the advantage of keyboard+mouse (if you play on PC) to trivialize the avoidance of projectile damage. It is my unfortunately unpopular belief that new releases of classic games should be encouraged to be speedran as little as humanly possible. Giving 2020 Doom 64 its own leaderboard inherently validates it as a game on equal footing with the original, something I staunchly disagree with.
If Doom 64 had a titanic history of hundreds or thousands of runners, which games like Mario 64 or Goldeneye 007 have, the leaders of that community would have near infinite leverage to attract new players into playing the original game. They would also not need to sweat about some re-release stealing prospective runners from their game, because the relative difference in community size would be so staggering that the remake community could just be ignored (which is what happens). In my case, we have a game in Doom 64 that I feel is every bit as quality of a speedrun as SM64, yet the history of breaking new ground in this game has been in the hands of really only 3 people: Peaches, ZELLLOOO, and myself. The worry is that, without the grand history and leverage that having a storied history and large community gives you, the relative size of the new speedrunning community in the remake vs the community in the original game will be non trivial. In this even worse scenario, the remake community would likely be 2-5 times bigger than the original. Most players will be playing the version that is 50% slower. What message does that send to the outside?
Perhaps this post comes off as some grumpy jaded speedrunner’s delusional musings. I don’t know, maybe it’s true. I have spent 6 years playing this game trying so hard to get anyone to play it because it’s perhaps the most underrated speedrun in existence. I am extremely biased, but I still feel like my general sense of the situation is correct. If there is an overwhelming majority of people who disagree with my ideas stated here, then I can’t really do anything to stop it. I mostly wanted to share my thoughts so that I could be at peace, no matter what ends up happening. Hopefully, I am just making a mountain out of a molehill.
tl;dr: -new leaderboard discourages players from playing original and fastest version -keeping the games together still allows you to filter by platform -pretty please speedrun n64 :)
Emulator is substantially faster than console as it has next to no lag. For that reason, emulator is not allowed. I will update the rules here to reflect that too.
theres no real rule against them because its substantially slower than console. loading times are like more than double and you cannot do any of the clips that save loads of time because there isn't enough lag on emulator to do them. I personally don't know which emulator would be best... I've only done testing on bizhawk pretty much
I was thinking about how when WoW Classic comes out, there are likely going to be many people who will speedrun the full level 1-60. From what I know of from people who speedran vanilla WoW back in the day, in-game time was used and will probably continued to be used in timing these runs due to its length. There are potential loopholes and mechanics that could be abused to drastically extend real time in order to significantly cut in game time though, which could cause a creation of a real time category.
My question is, if a community such as this (or other communities with long games) decided to have a real time category for something far exceeding 24 hours of time to complete, should we be allowing this? It is pretty well documented how much risk you can potentially subject yourself to when you are sitting for that much at a time, often without any sleep.
I'm certainly not someone who wants to default to restricting any community from creating any categories they want to, but should speedrun.com at least provide adequate disclaimers and warnings for people wishing to go down this route? It would be a shame if anyone ever hurt themselves or worse while speedrunning for the purpose of submitting to this website.
As a side note, I also don't believe this is really a big deal for games where like only 1 person decides to be crazy enough to do 100% of some super long game. My concern is when a game such as WoW Classic comes out which is a very popular game and the speedrun gets potentially very competitive, more and more people could be doing these extended speedruns in a single sitting and eventually would be doing these runs over and over again.
since nobody plays this game I don't see why not, but if you have WR aspirations i would highly suggest transitioning to original console at some point first
